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Ask The Disney Experts Discuss WDW neglected? in the Ask The Experts forums; Originally Posted by Mo Noyz Well, I'll tell you what. Look up the WDW resort area, and then look up the DL resort area. Tell me if you notice any ...
  1. #46
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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    Well, I'll tell you what. Look up the WDW resort area, and then look up the DL resort area.

    Tell me if you notice any differences between the two.

    And as far as the rather dopey Avatar comments above are concerned, why don't we wait to see at least some concept art before we deem it a failure?
    I consider your judgement of my comments being dopey to be, well...dopey. I'm not viewing it as being a failure before it's built. I consider it as being out of place to Animal Kindgom, a topic that has been debated on this site to the point that it's nauseating, and more at home to DHS.

    Besides what't the point in belonging to an online community about Disney if we aren't going to debate Disney?
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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    Well, I'll tell you what. Look up the WDW resort area, and then look up the DL resort area.
    I'm not sure who you are addressing, what comments are dopey and you were going to tell us something. When we look up WDW and DL resort areas, to what end?

    Tell me if you notice any differences between the two
    .
    Very vague again. So here goes.

    One was the original park one was not.
    One Walt visited after opening one he did not.
    One is very land locked, one is not.
    One is South-East, one is West.
    One has a large focus on DVC's.
    One has multiple bodies of water.

    The list is endless, can you narrow down your request for resort information.

    And as far as the rather dopey Avatar comments above are concerned, why don't we wait to see at least some concept art before we deem it a failure?
    Can you quote who said Avatar is a failure? I've tried to look back and can't seem to find that.

    Lately, in WDW it is after the concept art is released that new projects go into hiatus. FLE stalled out after concept art was released and then a chunk had to be reimagineered after a lukewarm reception. Same goes for the Wharf. The Wharf was not well received by many fans and is still nothing but concept art. An Avatar attraction could work well at the Studios. I'm all for and expansion at AK that actually gets built, I just can't wrap my brain around that particular movie being worth the gamble for a whole new area. I still feel the same way about FLE, there is so much for to fantasy beyond princesses. Frankly there have been so many Disney films that have storylines based on animals, I believe that would be a better fit into AK and not reliant on just one film, FLE at least has that diversity. Harry Potter at least had many books and multiple movies along with a major worldwide cult like following spanning from elementary school age guests to grandparents. That was a good gamble. I'm just not seeing that same pattern of Avatar followers.
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  3. #48
    Mo Noyz is offline Unfortunately, this user's actions have resulted in him/her being BANNED from the site
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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Well, let's take a realistic look, shall we?

    WDW has four full parks. How many does DL have?

    WDW had no parks that were considered a failure. How many did DL have?

    WDW has nearly 30 resorts. How many does DL have?

    WDW has 5 golf courses. How many does DL have?

    Can you note the pattern here? We are not "neglected" by any sense of the word. Are lesser Walt Disney resorts around the world receiving a little more attention than WDW? Boy, I'd certainly hope so. Especially since you'd have to combine several of them to even come close to the size and scope of the WDW Resort area. In both size and content.

    Now, think about that from a business perspective. You've got 6 stores. One is essentially a Super Walmart, and the other 5 are essentially corner convenience stores/gas stations. If you're looking to make improvements, where is your focus going to be?

    And as far as ohiodisneydad's/Stewbot's comments about already wanting to trade Avatarland for Carsland...really? Whether you think it's out of place, or not, doesn't it seem reasonable to at least wait and see what we're even talking about first? It could turn out that Avatarland blows Carsland out of the water. If it doesn't, then you'll have something to complain about.

    Until then...

  4. #49
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    Re: WDW neglected?

    I could care less if Avatarland blows Cars Land out of the water. IN MY OPINION, It doesn't fit in AK. Once it's done, I'm still relatively certain MY OPINION is that it's out of place. If they wanted to do something with dinosaurs or mythical creatures then I'd be thumbs up because it fits. The AK sign even says so. If the plan was to put Avatarland in DHS I'd be happy to wait and see. In my humble OPINION, I think Disney would have been better served to get in bed with the devil George Lucas and make a Star Wars land. But that's a different argument for some other time and thread.

    But I agree, let's take a realistic look

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    WDW has four full parks. How many does DL have?
    We all know the answer is a DL's two versus WDW's four, more then that if you actually count the water parks as actual parks. But the problem with this argument is availability of affordable real estate. There's not enough land available at a decent price in CA to build more parks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    WDW has nearly 30 resorts. How many does DL have?
    Like they say in the land business, Location, Location, Location. There's no way Disney is going to pony up money to buy pre existing hotels that surround DL because the owners are going to want a premium for them. And they certainly don't own enough land to build monster themed resorts like they can at WDW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    WDW has 5 golf courses. How many does DL have?
    Seems to be a pattern developing here. No real estate to build 5 golf courses in CA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    WDW had no parks that were considered a failure. How many did DL have?
    It may not be a failure but I don't consider AK a huge success. And honestly for the first few years, neither was Epcot.

    And you argument about owning a Super Wally world and 5 smaller stores doesn't really hold water, at least in my area. All of our WM's have become Supersized AND had gas stations added. And yes, up until the Fantasyland addition WDW has kind of been neglected. We get second run parades, our "original" attractions get taken out to be replaced by character meet and greets or splash pads. And why not?People are going to go regardless if Disney removes the originals for improvements or adds new attractions there.
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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post

    Now, think about that from a business perspective. You've got 6 stores. One is essentially a Super Walmart, and the other 5 are essentially corner convenience stores/gas stations. If you're looking to make improvements, where is your focus going to be?


    Until then...
    It depends on what the end results are for your business model. My choice would be a higher percentage in attendance. In business unless guests visit what is the point.

    In 2011 Disneyland, saw a meager 1% increase in attendance as did the MK, AK, DHS, DCA and Epcot, all 1% with the economy slightly recovering.

    Disney-Paris saw a 4.7% increase. While both Tokyo parks lost ground, between 3-5.8% most of this was due to the major earthquake.

    Islands of Adventure was up 29%.

    Universal was up 2% both in Florida and in Cali.

    Disney still has much higher attendance figures but from a business standpoint, if your model is to raise your revenue and pay higher dividends to your shareholders, Harry Potter and Universal is the winner. The invested and it payed high returns. I wonder if either FLE or Cars will bring a 29% increase in attendance. I have not researched what Cars estimated costs were but FLE half billion is a chunk to justify if attendance does not blossom.

    There is a big difference between fan satisfaction and a business perspective. While 1% increase is nothing to sneeze at for WDW shareholders Universal shareholders have got to be pleased with their imagineers end results.
    Some people are like Slinkies.

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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    Well, let's take a realistic look, shall we?

    WDW has four full parks. How many does DL have?

    WDW had no parks that were considered a failure. How many did DL have?

    WDW has nearly 30 resorts. How many does DL have?

    WDW has 5 golf courses. How many does DL have?

    Can you note the pattern here? We are not "neglected" by any sense of the word. Are lesser Walt Disney resorts around the world receiving a little more attention than WDW? Boy, I'd certainly hope so. Especially since you'd have to combine several of them to even come close to the size and scope of the WDW Resort area. In both size and content.
    I don't think Walt anticipated the Anaheim area to build up around his park the way businesses there did. This was the whole reason why they bought out so much land in Orlando. I've been do Disneyland one time (didn't much care for it and I don't see myself heading back any time soon) and it was very much like any other theme park, where you pull off the main road and right into the parking lot. When Walt saw what was happening, he had the foresight to buy out a huge area of land where he wouldn't have any businesses encroach on his park. This enabled them to build up into the massive empire that they built in Orlando. I'm sure Disney would love to duplicate this in CA, but they can't based on space. Same thing happened to Graceland and to the Alamo. It's odd seeing the Alamo between two office buildings.
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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by supernova View Post
    I don't think Walt anticipated the Anaheim area to build up around his park the way businesses there did. This was the whole reason why they bought out so much land in Orlando. I've been do Disneyland one time (didn't much care for it and I don't see myself heading back any time soon) and it was very much like any other theme park, where you pull off the main road and right into the parking lot. When Walt saw what was happening, he had the foresight to buy out a huge area of land where he wouldn't have any businesses encroach on his park. This enabled them to build up into the massive empire that they built in Orlando. I'm sure Disney would love to duplicate this in CA, but they can't based on space. Same thing happened to Graceland and to the Alamo. It's odd seeing the Alamo between two office buildings.
    When I returned to Disneyland after many years of visiting WDW I too was taken back by the Six Flags type of entrance. I did not recall that from my prior memories of Disneyland. I guess in my own defense WDW entrance was very different also when it was just the MK. So returning to DL as an adult when WDW had two parks already, DL was like Holy Asphalt.
    Some people are like Slinkies.

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    Mo Noyz is offline Unfortunately, this user's actions have resulted in him/her being BANNED from the site
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    Re: WDW neglected?

    The WDW Radio forums fantasyland expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by HG
    The invested and it payed high returns. I wonder if either FLE or Cars will bring a 29% increase in attendance.
    How many times a year does either of the Universal parks close due to capacity?

    Of course you won't see a 29% increase in a park that is already pushing capacity most months out of the year. Yet, I'm sure that won't stop you from using that example later on when it doesn't meet the impossible HG goal of 29% increased attendance.
    Last edited by Mo Noyz; 06-28-2012 at 06:47 AM.

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    Re: WDW neglected?

    be nice people and keep it civilized
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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    How many times a year does either of the Universal parks close due to capacity?
    Of all the things Universal has going for it, capacity crowds are not one of them. And lately it seems that everyone who IS there is packed into Harry Potter land anyway. I can imagine Cars Land will be the same way. And perhaps not so much for the new Fantasyland. I think it'll be more curiousity than anything else.

    I don't hit Universal on every trip. I was there maybe three or four years ago and then again this past December. Three years ago, there was no Harry Potter and the park was a darn-near ghost town. I was almost embarrassed for them to have to put on their afternoon parade, complete with retired Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade floats. Forget lining up an hour before (which I don't do at WDW either), but here there was simply no need. On this past visit, it was fairly deserted too (although the parking decks seemed rather full), and the Harry Potter area was impossible to walk through due to the mass of humanity packed into the narrow roads. It's very tight though they tried to do too much with the small area they had. Now they can expand and give people more room to walk.
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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Right, which was my point. Increasing attendance at other parks by 29 percent is doable. Not so at the MK.

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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    And as far as ohiodisneydad's/Stewbot's comments about already wanting to trade Avatarland for Carsland...really? Whether you think it's out of place, or not, doesn't it seem reasonable to at least wait and see what we're even talking about first? It could turn out that Avatarland blows Carsland out of the water. If it doesn't, then you'll have something to complain about.
    I actually said I would trade it for a nature walk.

    My issue with Avatar Land is that I don't like that franchise. I recently watched the movie again and sure it looked beautiful, but I didn't much care for the movie. Granted, there are two more films to come and I may feel different about it once they all come out. But for the reasons I don't like the first one I highly doubt it.

    I'm sure it will be awesome, and I would enjoy what they'll put in there, but it'll be a conflict of interest for me. I enjoy things like Pirates or Harry Potter so much more because I get excited to watch the movies/read the books because of the attractions and I get excited to visit the attractions when I'm at home watching the movies/reading the books.

    Visiting Avatar Land isn't going to make me want to rush home and watch the movie again. And watching the movie -for the most part- doesn't make me more excited to visit the attraction. I'll be interested to see it just because it's something new. But I'll never be able to fully immerse myself in it the way I can with other things that I enjoy all the way around.

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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by HauntedGabe View Post
    It depends on what the end results are for your business model. My choice would be a higher percentage in attendance. In business unless guests visit what is the point.

    In 2011 Disneyland, saw a meager 1% increase in attendance as did the MK, AK, DHS, DCA and Epcot, all 1% with the economy slightly recovering.

    Disney-Paris saw a 4.7% increase. While both Tokyo parks lost ground, between 3-5.8% most of this was due to the major earthquake.

    Islands of Adventure was up 29%.

    Universal was up 2% both in Florida and in Cali.

    Disney still has much higher attendance figures but from a business standpoint, if your model is to raise your revenue and pay higher dividends to your shareholders, Harry Potter and Universal is the winner. The invested and it payed high returns. I wonder if either FLE or Cars will bring a 29% increase in attendance. I have not researched what Cars estimated costs were but FLE half billion is a chunk to justify if attendance does not blossom.

    There is a big difference between fan satisfaction and a business perspective. While 1% increase is nothing to sneeze at for WDW shareholders Universal shareholders have got to be pleased with their imagineers end results.
    I'm afraid of the results on what your saying... I mean Harry Potter has been the latest craze for over a decade now with up to 6+ generations following it where Fantasyland is still just old Fantasyland with a few very few new attractions.. But still with stories that were premiered in the early 90's where Harry Potter was still recent up to last year.

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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by StewbotTalborg View Post
    I actually said I would trade it for a nature walk.

    My issue with Avatar Land is that I don't like that franchise. I recently watched the movie again and sure it looked beautiful, but I didn't much care for the movie. Granted, there are two more films to come and I may feel different about it once they all come out. But for the reasons I don't like the first one I highly doubt it.

    I'm sure it will be awesome, and I would enjoy what they'll put in there, but it'll be a conflict of interest for me. I enjoy things like Pirates or Harry Potter so much more because I get excited to watch the movies/read the books because of the attractions and I get excited to visit the attractions when I'm at home watching the movies/reading the books.

    Visiting Avatar Land isn't going to make me want to rush home and watch the movie again. And watching the movie -for the most part- doesn't make me more excited to visit the attraction. I'll be interested to see it just because it's something new. But I'll never be able to fully immerse myself in it the way I can with other things that I enjoy all the way around.
    For me it's completely opposite. I've hardly seen a single Disney movie a ride or land is designed after, and honestly don't care.

    Can you imagine somebody having watched what seemed unanimously horrid like the Haunted Mansion movie and disdaining the ride because of it?

    Wouldn't make sense to me.

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    Re: WDW neglected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mo Noyz View Post
    For me it's completely opposite. I've hardly seen a single Disney movie a ride or land is designed after, and honestly don't care.

    Can you imagine somebody having watched what seemed unanimously horrid like the Haunted Mansion movie and disdaining the ride because of it?

    Wouldn't make sense to me.
    At least in that case, the ride came before the movie. In most cases, it's the other way around.
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