WDW neglected?

[ohiodisneydad]

Anyone care to guess how much it will affect me the nonexistent day Universal surpasses WDW?

And honestly...surpasses them how? In attendance? Yearly earnings?

Universal has barely learned how to theme their parks. It could be argued they actually haven't at all (though I haven't seen Pooterland).

I wouldn't care if Disney were tenth in whatever subjective and ridiculous category we could talk about. It's my resort. Period.

That's why I said decades away.

If the original intent was WDW being neglected, this has gotten way off topic.

[JNota0005DakMC]

Disney has been trying to figure out how to do the same thing for years. Most likely they'll package the price in with your resort along with a hierarchy based on the level of resort you choose to stay in. (How's that for fine management?)

exactly for years... yeh they may raise ticket prices and such and the price is there but keep this in mind...
1. Disney's isn't $35.99 for the day.
2. Disney's Fastpass includes every ride...

IOA had those characters long before Disney even thought about buying up Marvel. And they have contracts to keep them in their parks for as long as they keep in good condition.

Also, Disney is still getting a portion of the profits from those characters in their parks, which is more than Universal can say at Disney Parks.

THAT WAS THE POINT...! they may have had them long before... and they m,ay have a contract... but do you see ET walking down Main Street...? umm... no... and don't you think Disney would fix it if all of a sudden Universal owned the rights to say Peter Pan...? Something tells me management would be intelligent and close PPF and re-theme all remnants of it...

[JNota0005DakMC]

That's why I said decades away.

If the original intent was WDW being neglected, this has gotten way off topic.

it did... because it is the prerogative of some that Disney's stead fastness (which i somehow do not see) is causing Universal to creep up on them... (i don't see that either)

[Mo Noyz]

Nor do I.

[HauntedGabe]

well said... this is the issue... and the thought of Disney doing nothing in the past 10 years...

That is a hard sentence to respond to. Nothing makes the argument difficult to respond to. Yes indeed a few bones have been thrown to the loyal guest. A wonderful addition in Everest, though hardly enough to hold most guests in AK a full day and the Yeti is still a thorn in Disney's side. DHS major draw is Sunset, the best expansion I've ever seen. That is the Disney expansion I tout as Disney excellence. Unfortunately many of their shows are becoming dated and not drawing as they once have. Neither is the backlot tour or the strip of Sounds Dangerous or Idol.
Sunset is where the guest gather and their anchor show Fantasmic has been running without major componants broken even after the long refurb. Even Saturday show canceled after it started. West Coast one was newer, WDW l.0, then 3.o to the West Coast and now the West has a 5.0 and WDW Fantasmic l.0 that operates broken. Much like Splash Mountain in WDW. If Disney gets around to maintaining Splash, that is an expected not a Wow. Wow to me isn't maintenance. Maintenance like Space that failed, well oy.

1. Expedition Everest opened in 2006
2. Star Tours update: 2011
3. We may not like it but Lights! Motors! Action! in 2005
4. Toy Story Mania in 2008
5. Soarin' in 2005 (though that was transplanted from Cali)
6. The Seas with Nemo- 2004
7. Philarmagic 2003
8. Laugh Floor- 2007
9. FLE
10. Test Track

LMA-I've seen it a few times, it doesn't have staying power with me, enjoyed it a few time and Indian Jones I'm there too, it doesn't hold the enjoyment it once did, kinda like Mermaid @ the Studios.
Now Test Track refurb maybe a good argument, maybe not. If like Space Mountain, they fail to fix the attraction operation issues could be a fail. Space had a long refurb and major queue modifications yet the attraction is down frequently and for hours at a time so the queue gets less use than it should. IF Disney can actually get TT to stop going down after the refurb then we can add it to the list of Refurb's sucessess. Star Tours too, just a different movie show during the similulator ride. Yes far better quality than Soarin currently is but still the same basic experience as before. I fear that for Test Track. HM, to me the best rework and queue. Nemo, I can't get on board with the excitement, a far cry from what it was originally just like entire Pavilion. The last Imagination refurb also a downgrade from the original and that goes for the entire pavilion. WoL, lost a lot in there. Bringing back EO as a replacement for Shrunk, a weak investment.

Phil, Crush and Laugh are both very cute. Very nice, low budget additions and perfect secondary additions. Tiki refurb? Empty most of the time. CoP, a classic, sadly neglected and not operating properly most times. Carpet ride! Cute also for little children, me, it doesn't draw my family, just kinda plopped in there. How about the Carnival addition at AK, carni games and Six Flags, poorly operating off the shelf coaster ride? That is a sad expansion of AK.

I can't get overly excited about Disney fixing broken attractions.

there are a few i might have missed... but I'm sure the argument will be that none of these were significant... yeh... 2 hour waits at TSM and Soarin are not relevant... and EE didn't help put people into AK...

I won't argue that TSM is popular, a great family ride. A true knock off of Buzz and the best of the class Men in Black. Soarin, I'm glad WDW got a duplicate of the Cali film, I really do enjoy it especially when I am fortunate enough to FP it. But lets not confuse the enormous wait time as equivant sucess as Cars. Those two attractions have some of the slowest load times ever created by Disney thus the lengthy waits for the experience. Buzz and Men in Black were designed better for load speed and require far less CM's to load the attraction.

FLE will be a wonderful addition. Again, glad Disney duplicated the Dark Ride for WDW. Coaster, will have to wait a few more years to see what WDW is getting and still can't get onboard for Snow being gone for a meet and greet. Disney could have done far better imagineering for a Snow replacement than a meet and greet.

And I agree, you can't compare Islands to the MK or DL. Those two parks are the crown jewels of themeparks. But I can compare Islands to DHS and AK. Islands half'd the attendance gap in one year. They are now trailing both DHS and AK by a small margin mainly because the Loyal Disney guests have opted to forfeit a day or two of Disney to hop instead to Islands. Epcots attendance has also dramatically dropped over the years and is only drawing a million more a year than either AK or DHS. I never would have predicted 10 years ago that Epcot could drop to near the level of AK! or AK would have more visitors and DHS.

[Mo Noyz]

And again I offer up the only question needed to respond to that post: So?

Let's just suppose that Universal one day overtakes WDW in attendance. So?

You know why it won't matter? Because Universal will never be able to match WDW in the most important way. Being WDW.

You actually made my point (and likely JNota's as well) when you said this:

They are now trailing both DHS and AK by a small margin mainly because the Loyal Disney guests have opted to forfeit a day or two of Disney to hop instead to Islands.

Think carefully about the implications of this statement. It's like saying that during your week long vacation at Cape Cod you're going to take a day and drive over to Boston. All well and good, but Cape Cod is still your vacation destination.

Also consider how many of those folks are still staying at Disney resorts while going to IoA for the day. IoA might be a fun diversion, but I've never met anyone that talked about planning their entire vacation around Universal.

[HauntedGabe]

And again I offer up the only question needed to respond to that post: So?

Let's just suppose that Universal one day overtakes WDW in attendance. So?

You know why it won't matter? Because Universal will never be able to match WDW in the most important way. Being WDW.

You actually made my point (and likely JNota's as well) when you said this:



Think carefully about the implications of this statement. It's like saying that during your week long vacation at Cape Cod you're going to take a day and drive over to Boston. All well and good, but Cape Cod is still your vacation destination.

Also consider how many of those folks are still staying at Disney resorts while going to IoA for the day. IoA might be a fun diversion, but I've never met anyone that talked about planning their entire vacation around Universal.

It didn't need careful thought. While it is a perfectly acceptable notion you hold of So? as a guest, it is not likely ever going to float in any corporate business model or in any pitch WDW executives are going to pitch to the Board of Directors or to their stockholders. Disney has dismissed many of their executives during the FLE expansion time frame and removed many others from their high level positions within the parks they operated. So? Can you just imagine an executive pitching your above ideas for the future decisions of WDW and the the pitch be So? for attendance and upgrades to keep attendance from dwindling or guests continuing to spend a day or two at Universal Parks and pitch So? we are still the real destination and they are not WDW so let them stay at the other park for a day or two, spend food, alcohol, beverage, souvenir, admission and So? board we don't care if the guests spend those vacation dollars elsewhere. I'm not in your camp believing this is the attitude of WDW, some guests maybe.

I can't believe the board or shareholders will willingly accept as you imply, So? some guests stay at WDW resorts and just spend their vacation dollars at the Universal Parks. I still believe FLE was a quick response to the guests defecting for a day or two to Islands and Universal. Harry opened and has broken ground on the expanded expansion before Disney can open one of two attractions in FLE and can't count on the coaster until 2014. That has to gnaw at the board and shareholders that FLE had to be reworked before they could implement construction of FLE. Same with the Wharf and who the heck knows about the Avatar that has yet to have concept art let alone break ground. Nope, can't believe the board would continue accept this direction and embrace So.

Our family vacation were generally around two weeks to WDW. The last family vacation we took we stayed 4 nights at Universal and 7 nights at Disney. A deluxe hotel at Universal, the Portifino and POR, a moderate at Disney. So? I can't imagine Disney finding that acceptable and taking on the So mantra.
My hope is Cali and FLE is just the beginning of Disney reinvesting in their parks in a more significant way then the small scope they have over the last decade or so. One E, Everest for 4 parks left the door open for the competition. Broken down and E attractions in disrepair cannot be answered with a So? Time will tell if they learned their lesson or if you are correct about the so what attitude. Me, I'd go to the board with well thought out plans of action to stop the bleeding vs pitching your So philosophy.

[Mo Noyz]

This will be a softball right down the middle of the plate for you.

Guess how worried I am about the corporate profits of Disney?

[tiggerguy]

this has drifted so far off topic it isn't funny.

[Mo Noyz]

Agreed.

[StewbotTalborg]

don't you think Disney would fix it if all of a sudden Universal owned the rights to say Peter Pan...? Something tells me management would be intelligent and close PPF and re-theme all remnants of it...

I see what you're saying but I think Marvel is a big enough cash cow right now that it's probably worth it to Universal to throw Disney a percentage of the profits and still do very well.


That being said, perhaps it's best we let this old thread rest for a couple of years and then reboot it but make it really dark and action packed so everyone will love it.

[LTTCMJAKE]

A theme park expansion that was more then likely brought on by the competition's addition of an area featuring Harry Potter.

Since everyone enjoys analogies lets use this one. These parks remind me of the old Papa John's commercials where the delivery drivers for the old guys, Pizza Hut and Domino's, would laugh at the new guys on the block, Papa Johns, but eventually the new guys passed them by.

Universal is decades away from unseating Disney as the leader in the theme park world but that doesn't mean that Disney should rest on it's laurels. Universal is making serious moves and is banking on Harry Potterville to carry it into the future.

And with the Walmart previously being brought back into the mix, take a stroll through your local Wally World. The ethnic foods sections are growing, there's more exotic produces being offered, etc. Walmart is adapting to it's changing customer base.

Now to kind of emphasize the OP's topic, Spectromagic was replaced by the Main Street Electical Parade which is getting re-retired at WDW and in it's place we are getting...wait for it...SPECTROMAGIC!! Not a new reimagined Spectro but the same old one. Now I like Spectromagic and Disney never promised to replace Spectro on a permanent basis which is good because I like the music and it's the parade that was there when we first started going. But why would Disney not take the time to add to or re-imagine Spectro or create a whole new parade to debut at WDW while MSEP is appearing? Is it neglect or taking it's customer's loyalty for granted?

because of it being the 40th anniversary I feel it's trying to recapture the old days and pride themselves on their original attractions... yes that’s great for the nostalgic people but not for the new age guests... They need to balance it better somehow....Plus I hear Disney dose as their guests ask...They respond to how guests respond to those random surveys that are randomly selected at the entrances to the parks....So maybe Disney is holding back on newer attractions because that's what their guests are favoring in the surveys?

[LTTCMJAKE]

I will give it to Universal on Potterland based on theming and such... The issue Universal always deals with is management... They finally built something worth it but they killed it with managing the park... Seriously charging to use their version of fastpass... And then it not including the big rides...? Come on... And then making guests lock everything they carried into the park into a locker... Just to get some morel eh out of people... Oh and btw... Nice of IOA to advertise Disney characters in their park... (think Marvel Superhero Island)

They had the Marvel contract before Disney bought Marvel so Disney settled to let them have the characters...Downside Disneyland can have Marvel characters in their parks where WDW can't so it was kinda a bust for WDW.... who knows when or if Universal will ever loose that contract..

[Mo Noyz]

I'm not a character fan to begin with, but I honestly wouldn't enjoy seeing Marvel characters in the parks.

[LTTCMJAKE]

And again I offer up the only question needed to respond to that post: So?

Let's just suppose that Universal one day overtakes WDW in attendance. So?

You know why it won't matter? Because Universal will never be able to match WDW in the most important way. Being WDW.

You actually made my point (and likely JNota's as well) when you said this:



Think carefully about the implications of this statement. It's like saying that during your week long vacation at Cape Cod you're going to take a day and drive over to Boston. All well and good, but Cape Cod is still your vacation destination.

Also consider how many of those folks are still staying at Disney resorts while going to IoA for the day. IoA might be a fun diversion, but I've never met anyone that talked about planning their entire vacation around Universal.

I agree with your statement but just this week Universal announced a new onsite hotel opening in 2014 so they are learning