1971 WDW Construction film footage

[i-neighborhood]

[i-neighborhood]

Magic everyone

[Mo Noyz]

Jury is still out if the all new HP new Coaster or the Dwarf new coaster will be crowned the better coaster, both should open in the same time frame. They both went vertical last year and both should be completed by 2014 at the latest. Can't debate which is better until they actually go online. Can't wait to compare new coaster to new coaster.

Really?

They both went vertical at the same time, and both should be completed in 2014?

Boy, that sounds like oddly similar time frames. But, since that argument is in ashes, now we're going to move the goal posts by speculating, yet refusing to speculate, on which one will be better.

Very nicely played.

[mickeytoo]

So, you're not going to answer my question?

Yes, I now see that I neglected to respond to the all important bonus question at the bottom of your post.
Revenge of the Mummy 2004. About 20 months from start to finish. And yes, I realize it was in an already existing structure. Good job again, Uni.
Coming next: Gringotts in a completely new structure. Although, apparently not as much of a coaster as the aforementioned, still considered by most to be a hybrid dark ride/coaster.
As far as I can tell, no "official" start date or completion date for this attraction has been announced, but from what I have researched "unofficially", it seems to be happening in a pretty timely manner.
Maybe Disney should actually take some pointers from Universal, as of late...don't disappoint "Guests" by making BIG announcements about attractions with timelines you already know you probably aren't even gonna' come close to being able to stick to.
Just say you've got somethin' new and awesome (although, being in Fantasyland, I personally don't think the mine coaster is gonna' be anything near the experience compared to the two Uni. rides I've mentioned) comin' down the pike and it'll be ready to blow you away when it's ready.

Did I come close, or do I lose a flipper...?

[HauntedGabe]

Really?

They both went vertical at the same time, and both should be completed in 2014?

Boy, that sounds like oddly similar time frames.

Disney Coaster went vertical in mid April 2012
Universal Parks Coaster went vertical in Mid September 2012

So yeah, both went vertical in 2012 so Disney does have a tiny head start in the race.

But, since that argument is in ashes, now we're going to move the goal posts by speculating, yet refusing to speculate, on which one will be better.

Very nicely played.

It isn't in ashes, you just seem to be evading the questions raised.

I'm willing to speculate the coasters in progress, you set the parameters cause I don't have the details on either project to do so. They are to the best of my knowledge both mixed adventures, coaster and dark ride so they should be fun to see them progress together. I've read the cutting edge show portion of Universals, I've only seen a animated version of Disney's new coaster and a few cute drawings. Other then just blindly picking Disney or Universal Parks coaster what criteria are we basing our speculation on?

But you have not answered my questions and you chastised me and others for not answering yours. You have dodged my questions, so here I go again.

1.Which re-purposed coaster was rehab'd better for an expansion project in your opinion, Goofini for FLE or Forbidden Journey for Harry Potter? Both are open so no speculating necessary.

2.And I'll ask yet again, Avatar expansion, do you believe six years from announcement, 2017 is equal to any Universal expansion time frame?

3.Wharf was announced in 2010. Disney Bulldozed and we are still waiting, do you honestly believe the amount of time this is taking Disney to complete the refurbishment of this area is in a timely, acceptable time frame?

[i-neighborhood]

I guess its safe to assume from what little I know and the one CM I asked, that this new coaster in Fantasy Land will be tame for the most part, which if that be the case, why not something more thrilling.

[HauntedGabe]

Yes, I now see that I neglected to respond to the all important bonus question at the bottom of your post.
Revenge of the Mummy 2004. About 20 months from start to finish. And yes, I realize it was in an already existing structure. Good job again, Uni.
Coming next: Gringotts in a completely new structure. Although, apparently not as much of a coaster as the aforementioned, still considered by most to be a hybrid dark ride/coaster.
As far as I can tell, no "official" start date or completion date for this attraction has been announced, but from what I have researched "unofficially", it seems to be happening in a pretty timely manner.
Maybe Disney should actually take some pointers from Universal, as of late...don't disappoint "Guests" by making BIG announcements about attractions with timelines you already know you probably aren't even gonna' come close to being able to stick to.
Just say you've got somethin' new and awesome (although, being in Fantasyland, I personally don't think the mine coaster is gonna' be anything near the experience compared to the two Uni. rides I've mentioned) commin' down the pike and it'll be ready to blow you away when it's ready.

Did I come close, or do I lose a flipper...?

Flipperless:

Gringott is going to be mixed elements coaster and dark ride, so ultimately who's coaster portion will be better and who's dark ride portion will be better will be the deciding factors. I really hope I am wrong from the video and pictures I've seen and that Disney will roll out a 21st century dark ride for the Dwarf. Seeing the track layout portion I am not Wow'd yet by the purported coaster portion.

Cars was done better than FLE and Cali completed the entire project then had its Grand Opening so there was also more of a Wow factor instead of the piecemeal manner FLE was introduced. I also think they did an amazing job on the rock work and force perspective in both Cars and Potter. I have not seen Cars in person but I'm having a hard time deciding which is superior Cars or HP.

I wish I had faith in Disney to say you were are wrong about FLE vs 2.0 or the Original HP for that matter.
There was a seminar this summer in Orlando with a panel of ex Imagineers that were "let go" by Disney and now worked on Universal projects, to me one of Disney's biggest mistakes ever. Universal projects are fully funded and the imagineers are running with it. But in all honesty I believe Disney should stop trying to keep up with Universal's 21st century attractions and put their funding into fixing the the attractions and pavilions that are in a disgraceful condition. What is the point of building more if you won't maintain what you already have.

[Mo Noyz]

1.Which re-purposed coaster was rehab'd better for an expansion project in your opinion, Goofini for FLE or Forbidden Journey for Harry Potter? Both are open so no speculating necessary.

2.And I'll ask yet again, Avatar expansion, do you believe six years from announcement, 2017 is equal to any Universal expansion time frame?

3.Wharf was announced in 2010. Disney Bulldozed and we are still waiting, do you honestly believe the amount of time this is taking Disney to complete the refurbishment of this area is in a timely, acceptable time frame?

1. We were never talking about which was better. Your point from the beginning has been that Disney simply cannot build things as quickly as Universal. A point you yourself have admitted is ridiculous.

Once again, we are talking time frame. That is tangible and on the record. Quality is subjective and arguable. Which is exactly why you are now attempting to change the parameters of the discussion.

2. Well, since I have absolutely no idea what either entails, not to mention the fact that Universal was already quite familiar with the Pooterville franchise, and Disney recently only signed on with Cameron, I have no idea. When was the expansion conceived? Is there a size or scope difference between the two? There are a ton of factors there.

3. The Wharf project is an embarrassment. There, you finally win one.

[Mo Noyz]

Revenge of the Mummy 2004. About 20 months from start to finish. And yes, I realize it was in an already existing structure. Good job again, Uni.[

So, if they had had to make an entirely new structure to build it in, what do you feel the time frame would have been?

I'm just trying to get a grasp on the imagined time frame that you are holding Disney to since you have no real world example to base it on.

[Mo Noyz]

I guess its safe to assume from what little I know and the one CM I asked, that this new coaster in Fantasy Land will be tame for the most part, which if that be the case, why not something more thrilling.

Exactly.

They should also put a triple corkscrew in Peter Pan's Flight! Put a 52' drop in Small World!

[supernova]

Maybe he had checked out of his hotel already and had valuables he didn't feel comfortable leaving in his car?

Not a suitcase, backpack. On day two of his five-day vacation.

[HauntedGabe]

1. We were never talking about which was better. Your point from the beginning has been that Disney simply cannot build things as quickly as Universal. A point you yourself have admitted is ridiculous.

Once again, we are talking time frame. That is tangible and on the record. Quality is subjective and arguable Which is exactly why you are now attempting to change the parameters of the discussion.

Mo Noyz:

Boy, that sounds like oddly similar time frames. But, since that argument is in ashes, now we're going to move the goal posts by speculating, yet refusing to speculate, on which one will be better.

You are willing to compare which is better of unbuilt coasters, but not which is better for two repurposed coasters that were rehab'd each for an expansion project that have gone online? You seem to be cherry picking which coasters can be discussed as being better, you don't even have to speculate, just your pick, opinion of who built a better rehab'd coaster for an expansion, Disney or Universal?



I've had my moments, this one I don't recall saying those words, please link:

A point you yourself have admitted is ridiculous

.

I'd like to see in what context I said those words before I maricopa.

Mo Noyz:
2. Well, since I have absolutely no idea what either entails, not to mention the fact that Universal was already quite familiar with the Pooterville franchise, and Disney recently only signed on with Cameron, I have no idea. When was the expansion conceived? Is there a size or scope difference between the two? There are a ton of factors there.

Again, you didn't answer the question.

Even if it is a large project, it is triple the time of building Epcot. Epcot had all sorts of relationships and also so many different sponsors to deal with. So again, 6 years for an expansion, Avatar, is that a reasonable time frame within an existing park? Disney was obviously confident enough to make an Avatar announcement after all and to sign on the dotted line with Cameron indicating they must have put due diligence for that type of expenditure. Avatar Expansion announced September 2011 with target date of 2015, later delayed 2 additional years to 2017. HP will be large, it pokes its head into two parks, several major attractions, new stores and additional dining options. Announced expansion on December 11, 2011. Both had very similar announcement time frames.

Mo Noyz:
3. The Wharf project is an embarrassment. There, you finally win one.

And you finally answered one question, the filibuster ends on one of the three.



You never set the parameters for the 2 new coasters comparisons i.e.:

HauntedGabe

It isn't in ashes, you just seem to be evading the questions raised.

I'm willing to speculate the coasters in progress, you set the parameters cause I don't have the details on either project to do so. They are to the best of my knowledge both mixed adventures, coaster and dark ride so they should be fun to see them progress together. I've read the cutting edge show portion of Universals, I've only seen a animated version of Disney's new coaster and a few cute drawings. Other then just blindly picking Disney or Universal Parks coaster what criteria are we basing our speculation on?

So are you going to back off your desire to speculate which new coaster is better? I admitted I don't know how you wanted to proceed in comparing the unknown particulars, but since you called me out for putting this discussion in ashes, I'm waiting........

[HauntedGabe]

I guess its safe to assume from what little I know and the one CM I asked, that this new coaster in Fantasy Land will be tame for the most part, which if that be the case, why not something more thrilling.

Which is disappointing if true. I would have no doubt CMs would parrot the spin Disney is creating so guests lower their expectations for Dwarf and then not be as disappointed in the "E" attraction of the expansion project.

Many members here speculated that Dwarf was going to be a "real" coaster and compared it to Thunder and Space not that long ago and seem to be discrediting themselves. I had heard between Barnstormer and Thunder, but now I wonder if the thrill factor will even match Barnstormer.

The expansion already had one tame coaster, the need to have two tame coasters in the same footprint/expansion, when all of Storybook is tame, Mermaid is tame, I agree, why not something more thrilling.

[i-neighborhood]

Which is disappointing if true. I would have no doubt CMs would parrot the spin Disney is creating so guests lower their expectations for Dwarf and then not be as disappointed in the "E" attraction of the expansion project.

Many members here speculated that Dwarf was going to be a "real" coaster and compared it to Thunder and Space not that long ago and seem to be discrediting themselves. I had heard between Barnstormer and Thunder, but now I wonder if the thrill factor will even match Barnstormer.

The expansion already had one tame coaster, the need to have two tame coasters in the same footprint/expansion, when all of Storybook is tame, Mermaid is tame, I agree, why not something more thrilling.

I have no idea if its true, but that seems to be what there selling and I just watched a virtual ride of the coaster Disney released and it seems that is exactly what it will be tame. This is also purported by the Orlando Sentinnel and Wikipedia. I just decided to Google to see what the "internet" is saying.

HauntedGabe thats a great point. They already have a variety of rides in Fantasyland and NewFantasyland, including a coaster. So why not make something that equals Space Mountain or beyond. But I guess there's always that studio that I haven't been to yet. I just don't know why, perhaps I or the Disney folks are living in "Fantasyland". When I rode the Rockin Roller Coaster my expectations were deflated. Its a great ride, but falls short in length and thrill. So when I heard about this new coaster I was excited for a good minute but in any event thats not until 2014 or beyond, and even then I won't be running to ride because of the lines. I have steered away from New Fantasyland to avoid crowds and the rides they do have don't really appeal to my son. Eventually we will ride them, but we have no excitement about New Fantasyland, well he still does and I won't deflate his expectations on the coaster, as he will probably like it, but time, lots of time, will tell.

[HauntedGabe]

I have no idea if its true, but that seems to be what there selling and I just watched a virtual ride of the coaster Disney released and it seems that is exactly what it will be tame. This is also purported by the Orlando Sentinnel and Wikipedia. I just decided to Google to see what the "internet" is saying.

I know what you are saying, I just keep hoping it isn't true.

HauntedGabe thats a great point. They already have a variety of rides in Fantasyland and NewFantasyland, including a coaster. So why not make something that equals Space Mountain or beyond.

That seems to be the million dollar question so many fans would like to direct at 21st century Disney Imagineers. In the other lands 20th Century Imagineers seemed to put a good mix of thrill and tame. This new breed of Imagineers seem to have a different thought process. While they built Everest as a new land as a thrill, there isn't anything around it that is tame or family inclusive.

But I guess there's always that studio that I haven't been to yet.

I would take the boy to Universal if he is tall enough to ride the attractions he has interest in. MIB attraction rocks over Buzz and Toy. Simpson, ET, HP, are very clever attractions. I love the diversity of attractions in the Universal Parks, visit in an off season time since you are pretty close.

I just don't know why, perhaps I or the Disney folks are living in "Fantasyland".

Best analogy I've heard in a long time! Kudos!

When I rode the Rockin Roller Coaster my expectations were deflated. Its a great ride, but falls short in length and thrill. So when I heard about this new coaster I was excited for a good minute but in any event thats not until 2014 or beyond, and even then I won't be running to ride because of the lines

.

I love Rock'n but I will never stand in a the stand-by queue as long as Disney insists of some form of FP. I wonder what Disney Imagineers have done with the load capacity per hour for Dwarf. I pray they did not create another slow loader.

I have steered away from New Fantasyland to avoid crowds and the rides they do have don't really appeal to my son. Eventually we will ride them, but we have no excitement about New Fantasyland, well he still does and I won't deflate his expectations on the coaster, as he will probably like it, but time, lots of time, will tell.

So you do not buy into the Disney Spin Mr. Phil Holmes, Magic Kingdom VP spun on December 6th 2012 in response to Princess heavy FLE? "Magic Kingdom Expansion focused on Boys"; "The focus on a male character from Beauty and Beast," and "Prince Eric. I know what kind of boy I had, he was into the Turtles, the Pirates, he liked 20K, Indy, Space, Buzz.

Princess characters not so much. I doubt that he would have ever want to portray himself or bond with with Prince Eric. It is that type of spin that makes me guarded about Disney's 21st Century Imagineers. 20th Century Imagineers at least knew to break it up in the Original FLE and tossed in a Toad and 20K to bring some balance. I doubt he would have begged to go to BoG, more likely a T-Rex or Rain Forest type of boy. Storybook is more balanced and doesn't scream boy or girl but it really is geared to the Preschoolers than Elementary or Pre-teen age group.