1971 WDW Construction film footage

[Mo Noyz]

So are you going to back off your desire to speculate which new coaster is better?

I possess no desire. That was simply you moving the goalposts once your "Universal builds things faster than Disney" argument went down the tubes. You, HG, stated quite clearly that Mine Train and the Universal coaster went vertical at the same time, and have set the finish line at the same spot in 2014.

As for Avatar vs. Pooterville Pt 2: The Revenge, as I previously stated: there are a wealth of details there that neither of us know the first thing about. Size and scope being the most important of the two. The fact that Universal has been dealing in Pooterville for some time now, and Disney just announced a deal with Cameron. Both very important.

Lastly, the way I chose to deal with unknowns is to treat them as such. Not make absolutist statements concerning them.

[HauntedGabe]

I possess no desire. That was simply you moving the goalposts once your "Universal builds things faster than Disney" argument went down the tubes. You, HG, stated quite clearly that Mine Train and the Universal coaster went vertical at the same time, and have set the finish line at the same spot in 2014.

Nope, that is your quote I posted Sir and you chastized me because I didn't think it was possible to compare the two new coasters at this time. Your chastizing quote about comparing came after mine.

As for Avatar vs. Pooterville Pt 2: The Revenge, as I previously stated: there are a wealth of details there that neither of us know the first thing about. Size and scope being the most important of the two. The fact that Universal has been dealing in Pooterville for some time now, and Disney just announced a deal with Cameron. Both very important.

So Disney needs 6 years for Disney to deal with Cameron? It is difficult to listen to excuses for Disney's & Avatar.
Only an incompetent company would announce a new expansion with the target of 2015 and then negotiate a deal with Cameron. I would think you negotiate then announce. Then subsequently push the project off another 2 years. Who operates a business like that? Disney if what you are saying sums it up correctly. If this is the excuse for Disney it does demonstrate why Universal can open their projects quicker, they have the wherewithal to negotiate deals without having to delay breaking ground on their projects. You are right, it is a key fact that Disney just announced a deal with Cameron so long after their announcement of the Expansion and 2015 date. For all we know it is just Camerons flight simulator attraction we are waiting for or possibly the whole Avatar project going the way of the Wharf. 2017 is so far off it is possible the only thing Disney has a clue about is the theme is Avatar. I think you are getting to the crocks of the problem with Disney.

And It didn't take Universal 6 years for the Original Harry Potter to launch when they had a new relationship with
JK Rowling now did it? She is known to be a pill to work with also.

Lastly, the way I chose to deal with unknowns is to treat them as such. Not make absolutist statements concerning them.

You forgot to post the link for this below statement you stated I made to support your argument , I am very curious what my thought process was, will you please post the link to where I posted?

Haunted Gabe:
I've had my moments, this one I don't recall saying those words, please link:


Mo Noyz: A point you yourself have admitted is ridiculous


.

[i-neighborhood]

So you do not buy into the Disney Spin Mr. Phil Holmes, Magic Kingdom VP spun on December 6th 2012 in response to Princess heavy FLE? "Magic Kingdom Expansion focused on Boys"; "The focus on a male character from Beauty and Beast," and "Prince Eric. I know what kind of boy I had, he was into the Turtles, the Pirates, he liked 20K, Indy, Space, Buzz.

Princess characters not so much. I doubt that he would have ever want to portray himself or bond with with Prince Eric. It is that type of spin that makes me guarded about Disney's 21st Century Imagineers. 20th Century Imagineers at least knew to break it up in the Original FLE and tossed in a Toad and 20K to bring some balance. I doubt he would have begged to go to BoG, more likely a T-Rex or Rain Forest type of boy. Storybook is more balanced and doesn't scream boy or girl but it really is geared to the Preschoolers than Elementary or Pre-teen age group.

We have walked passed it numerous times on various different days and his impression is that it's geared more towards young girls.

Eventually we will visit that section and ride, more because of my curiousness than his.

Speaking of Mr. Toad, well that's gone and so is 20,000. I remember when I first took him several years back, I asked where is 20,000 and was surprised it was taken out.

Again, to venture into Tomorrowland I was mad and perplexed at an attraction that's whole purpose is designed to bring young children in, turn out the lights and have a monster spit on us, of course thats just me. I never saw the movie and failed to find any humor or amusement. I would rather Tomorrowland be based in some reality (as EPCOT was intended) like the traditional attractions like Eastern. Don't have a problem they changed them but would rather it been something more practical.
Once in a while we will ride Buzz late at night, but never Stitch or Laugh in. Sometimes we ride the rockets, but the line is always long.

On another note, I use to notice a flowery smell when approaching the Haunted Mansion area which I thought was intentional, my son also commented on it. Recently, have not noticed that smell which he also noted, except for last week I thought I smelled it but then I wondered, have I been smelling florals from Tom Sawyer's island all along.

[mickeytoo]

So, if they had had to make an entirely new structure to build it in, what do you feel the time frame would have been?

I'm just trying to get a grasp on the imagined time frame that you are holding Disney to since you have no real world example to base it on.

I have no idea, nor does anyone else, obviously, because that's not the way it was done.
However, I will answer to the extent that I feel the Uni. of 2012 would be able to complete it in a much more timely fashion than the Uni. of a decade ago.
That being said, Dwarfs and Gringotts seems to be as close to a real world example as we're gonna' get for the time being, and only time will tell how they eventually play out.
When all the dust settles we can then compare them time frame-wise from the first actual turn of dirt to actual grand opening.
At which point I'm sure, of course, it will be discussed how factors like degree of difficulty, new/better tech, size and scope, theming, and even the effect of inclement weather (since one is entirely in doors) affected completion dates.
And, then it will all quickly progress into NASCAR, spinner ride mode again.

[Mo Noyz]

Then why don't we take your advice and see how it all plays out, shall we?

Until then, enough of this make believe "Universal does it faster" garbage. And let's leave out how we "feel". Fair enough?

[mickeytoo]

Then why don't we take your advice and see how it all plays out, shall we?

Until then, enough of this make believe "Universal does it faster" garbage. And let's leave out how we "feel". Fair enough?

Obviously, and of course, we should take that advice, on those two particular attractions, simply because neither of them have been completed as of yet. I've already made that abundantly clear.
What lap are we on now...?

As for part two: What? Another "spinner" ride...?!
I answered your own question in which you used the word "feel" with an answer that used the same word in it. Nice try. Before this further devolves into a flashback of the "Greg Gets Grounded" ("Those were your exact words") Brady Bunch episode, please allow me to restate: I have NO DOUBT that the Uni. of 2012 would get 'er done quicker than the Uni. of a decade ago, regarding the particular attraction you asked the question about. Fair enough?

[HauntedGabe]

Then why don't we take your advice and see how it all plays out, shall we?

Until then, enough of this make believe "Universal does it faster" garbage. And let's leave out how we "feel". Fair enough?

I understand your need to bail, you are unwilling to produce the link to a quote you said I made, I wish you would man up and deliver on this though. I really want to see what I purportedly stated.

Mo Noyz: A point you yourself have admitted is ridiculous



you are unwilling to choose a coaster that was rehab'd better for an expansion,Forbidden or Goofini, unable to form an opinion if six years is too long to wait for an Avatar expansion, had to bring goal posts into a thread that didn't have any goal posts, (I know, I started the thread and it evolved) goal posts are a nice place to waffle behind.

I understand your lack of desire to debate the two new coasters which was originally my suggestion not too and now you have come full circle back to my way of thinking. I didn't think it was prudent however you challenged me further with this post: Mo Noyz:

Boy, that sounds like oddly similar time frames. But, since that argument is in ashes, now we're going to move the goal posts by speculating, yet refusing to speculate, on which one will be better.

and I accepted the challenge:



HauntedGabe

It isn't in ashes, you just seem to be evading the questions raised.

I'm willing to speculate the coasters in progress, you set the parameters cause I don't have the details on either project to do so. They are to the best of my knowledge both mixed adventures, coaster and dark ride so they should be fun to see them progress together. I've read the cutting edge show portion of Universals, I've only seen a animated version of Disney's new coaster and a few cute drawings. Other then just blindly picking Disney or Universal Parks coaster what criteria are we basing our speculation on?




And now you bailed:

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz
I possess no desire. That was simply you moving the goalposts once your "Universal builds things faster than Disney" argument went down the tubes. You, HG, stated quite clearly that Mine Train and the Universal coaster went vertical at the same time, and have set the finish line at the same spot in 2014.

Indeed, they did go vertical at the same time, I'm not petty with a few months one way or the other for either park. I do take issue with the Disney approach to Avatar 2011 to 2015 to 2017. Years and years and years deserves wrath, a few months not so much.

You accused me of refusing to speculate on which coaster was better. I accepted the challenge and Now you have no desire. Your goal posts went timber.

Meanwhile Universal will go online with Transformer likely in the Summer of 2013. Just about the same time in 2013 Disney goes online with an amazing Princess Meet in Greet transformed from what was once the Snow White Dark Ride, who couldn't get goosebumps? I do admit Disney can transform an old attraction into a meet and greet as fast as Universal can build a whole new building for their all new Transformers attraction. Kudos Disney on the Meet and Greet, maybe it will blow Transformers away in cost and thrills.

I have bookmarked the thread to see what additional magic Disney can bring online besides Dwarf in 2014 when Universal brings to the plate Gringgotts Bank Coaster the center point of the Dragon Alley, the new film Warner Bros. is working on for the expansion and Hogwarts Express in addition to the shops and eateries. In addition the multiple attractions for Simpsons expansion, Despicable Me and the newly announced Jurassic Park attraction for late 2014 that should be family friendly. 2014 should be a major year for the Florida Universal Parks, we will just have to wait as you suggest and see if the Mermaid and Dwarf cancel out all of what Universal is bringing to the table in 2014. With the Grace of God Disney will have stuck a shovel in the ground by then for Avatar 2017. We can then address your goal post analogy you created and are ducking behind and see who built what by 2014.

But Disney will bring to the theme park table FP+ RFID which many believe is better than investing in attractions, I'm not onboard with that I'd rather have the attractions because the more attraction the less crowded they all would be. Disney will also get Kudo's for bringing online another DVC too, so Disney is laying out some big bucks on those two investments for the Guests. Go Disney!

[Mo Noyz]

Obviously, and of course, we should take that advice, on those two particular attractions, simply because neither of them have been completed as of yet. I've already made that abundantly clear.
What lap are we on now...?

As for part two: What? Another "spinner" ride...?!
I answered your own question in which you used the word "feel" with an answer that used the same word in it. Nice try. Before this further devolves into a flashback of the "Greg Gets Grounded" ("Those were your exact words") Brady Bunch episode, please allow me to restate: I have NO PROOF that the Uni. of 2012 would get 'er done quicker than the Uni. of a decade ago, regarding the particular attraction you asked the question about. Fair enough?

See above correction.

I'm not concerned with your "feelings" or your "opinions".

I really don't understand the incessant and infantile need to run down Disney that folks like you and HG possess, but the disconnect between what you pouters "feel" and what is reality is the only real breakdown here. It's one thing to complain about tangible problems, which I'll be more than happy to join in on. It's another thing to start simply cooking up fantasy for the sake of it.

My advice would be to simply stop spending your hard-earned money on an inferior and disappointing product.

[tiggerguy]

now closed