Is that all they've got? My view and vent on the new Fantasyland expansion.

[Communicore82]

If you can't read another's view point without getting defensive or think that the Disney Company is being attacked. I would stop reading here.

I'm not sure where to post this and this seemed like the best location in the forums. I'm not asking for anyone to answer or to even read it, but it's my viewpoint and I just want to put it out there. I hope at least someone else agrees. It's a ramble more than anything else, no proofreading just a post about my thoughts on how Disney has been in the past decade or so. I'm just going to post it.

Has the Walt Disney Company lost it’s imagination for building new attractions? The 2012 Fantasyland expansion is almost complete and there are two rides. One completed, The Little Mermaid and one still under construction, The Seven Dwarf’s mine train. I viewed the “ride through” of the new Mermaid attraction and I am not impressed or the slightest bit interested in it. A replay of the entire, over twenty year old movie, in ride form. Bravo Disney, you have become a “C” student, average and will get by.

Not to generalize, but there is lack of innovation at the imagineering department, or suppression thereof. The brilliant minds that must apply to work there and then are shut down to work on old story lines and create attractions of the same. Where are the new ideas, ride vehicles, interactions and newly designed worlds and lands? Where are the Horizons, the people mover, Carousel of Progress, and Haunted Mansion of today, attractions Disney went above and beyond with in it’s prime? They are nowhere to be seen. I only see a shill of a company wanting to save money and “do what works”, so it does not have to innovate.

“People will come anyway.” Do not be too sure of yourself, Disney. One just needs to look at a quick history of some companies; Netflix, Amazon, Priceline, Apple (in mobile respect), Nest Labs, Spotify, etc. I could go on. How little did their competition pay attention to the fact that the public does want and will pay for innovation. These companies did what their complacent competition thought was not possible. They overtook their markets and tore them a new one.

The company needs to impress and what I’ve seen in the new Fantasyland, it is far from it. I guess the ideas ran out now that you need to have an “avatar land” in Animal Kingdom. Innovation is the way, not suppressing the minds of your awesome imagineers. I bet they have some impressive gigantic ideas for new attractions that would blow the lid off of the **** put forward in the “new” Fantasyland. Change will happen, with or without you.

Out with the old and in with the fast moving, forward thinking innovators of the theme park industry.

[Mo Noyz]

Have you actually been to the new Fantasyland?

What are your ideas as to what they should have done differently?

What was so special about Horizons? It was just another dark ride with very low attendance. And arguably the weakest of the original EPCOT Center dark rides. I thought it was OK, but was never blown away by it.

[HauntedGabe]

If you can't read another's view point without getting defensive or think that the Disney Company is being attacked. I would stop reading here.

I'm not sure where to post this and this seemed like the best location in the forums. I'm not asking for anyone to answer or to even read it, but it's my viewpoint and I just want to put it out there. I hope at least someone else agrees. It's a ramble more than anything else, no proofreading just a post about my thoughts on how Disney has been in the past decade or so. I'm just going to post it.

I'm half in your court. I'm very blown away by the beauty Disney created and so much detail, the area finally received some ambiance. Heck I was even impressed by the restrooms in the Circus area. The restaurant will be quite the draw and take some pressure off of Cindy's Princess meals. I am certain I will love walking through that area at night more than the day. Circus actually popped visually at night when I went through it, day time it was quite warm as all the concrete just radiated heat. From what I could see prior to any soft openings and have seen since on video and in pictures it is charming to look at.

Now with that said, I'm sure I will not ride Mermaid loyally like I do Space, Thunder, Mansion, Splash, Pirates. Having seen both DL & FLE on video it isn't my personal type of E attraction. Mermaid already has lost its Big Draw in California, so unless they upped the ante dramatically in Florida as time passes it will likely be to me < anyhow similar to the Great Movie Ride, no queue, I'll ride, long queue, I'd skip type of attraction. Dwarf I am cautiously excited. It can either be a great E attraction or land somewhere between Thunder and Goofy coaster thrill wise. If there isn't a bang or a thrill to Dwarf I can't imagine over the years I will spend the time in FLE as I do in Liberty and Frontierland. My gut is it will be a visual land for me more than anything else as I'm not a big meet and greet guest, nor am I likely to spend hours in the shops. Others likely will go gaga over all the meet and greets with so many more shopping venues available. I respect the guests who drool over this type of expansion and the win win for me is there will be hopefully less guests in the queues for my type of E attractions.

Yet if FLE put in some nice cocktails in the evening hours at Gastons, with the beautiful lighting and paths, I could see me hang'n back there for a little while absorbing the beauty, much like I do in the World Showcase in the evening, chill and stroll. I can tell already by what I've seen and watched, my favorite expansion will still be Sunset at DHS for Bang for the buck attractions.

I note too that Disney added 2 new attractions and coughed up a dark attraction for an additional meet and greet venue, so in the end Fantasyland will be up one attraction. Some guests adore Meet n Greets, I'm just not one of them.

[Mo Noyz]

I'd say the bottom line for me is that it looks like a major upgrade to the previous incarnation of FL.

Is that the impression you get, Gabe?

As for day vs. night, I suppose you could say that for any location on property.

The water features are what have really stood out to me in the videos I've seen. Getting beyond the Utilidors has really let the Imagineers make some spectacular changes.

I've never been a huge fan of FL, but I'm actually pretty excited to see this expansion in December. Will it become my new favorite land? Most definitely not. But, it was the one land that needed this more than any other, IMO.

Oh, and with you 100% on the Meet-n-Greets. Couldn't have cared less before, ain't gonna change now.

[supernova]

I'm disappointed with the whole Belle experience thing. Not that I'm their target audience, but I viewed a walk-through of the 'attraction' and it seems to be a one-and-done thing. Heck, I've seen it online and I won't visit it. Unless they change it up every now and again, why would you wait an hour to walk through the house, see the same skit done, and then leave? Pointless.

And this seems to be an excellent time to repost one of my earlier views. Why is this silly little project taking so d@mn long to finish? In two and a half years, they were able to take swamp land, and create the original Magic Kingom, its attractions, the Utilidors, etc. We're expected to believe they can't throw together a few rides as part of land expansion in a quarter of that time? Insane.

[HauntedGabe]

I'm disappointed with the whole Belle experience thing. Not that I'm their target audience, but I viewed a walk-through of the 'attraction' and it seems to be a one-and-done thing. Heck, I've seen it online and I won't visit it. Unless they change it up every now and again, why would you wait an hour to walk through the house, see the same skit done, and then leave? Pointless.

And this seems to be an excellent time to repost one of my earlier views. Why is this silly little project taking so d@mn long to finish? In two and a half years, they were able to take swamp land, and create the original Magic Kingom, its attractions, the Utilidors, etc. We're expected to believe they can't throw together a few rides as part of land expansion in a quarter of that time? Insane.

Well said! And you don't get to leave (at least when my son was previewing after the skit, you had to watch the kiddies meet her. When they are all done, they you are released.)

It has been indeed painfully slow and up to two additional years before the coaster is done. And the Mermaid isn't original it is a copy with some changes. It is mindboggling. I made the same comment after seeing the Tangled restroom area in April after months of work and they were no where. This week it is finally starting to look like a form of area, nearly 7 months after I saw it last. And that is just a restroom as the main attraction of that acreage. Makes you wonder how they could pull off an Avatar.

[StewbotTalborg]

I've said for a while that I didn't think FLE would be all that they're hoping it will be.

Hopefully the Mine Coaster will be something glorious, because if not, your marquee attraction for the expansion is a restaurant.

I think the expansion really needed 3 rides, and granted I haven't been to the park to get the actual scope and layout of the new fantasyland, but with all the beautiful landscaping they've put in place I'm not sure where they could add another attraction in the future.

[HauntedGabe]

I'd say the bottom line for me is that it looks like a major upgrade to the previous incarnation of FL.

Is that the impression you get, Gabe?

I saw the expansion with most of the construction walls down for Circus. Dumbo is an improvement, Goofy is the worst version of theming I've seen and I've seen them all. Donald was a better water area. More to do than just get wet. Better food venues than Toon but I'm really hate eating outdoors on a wall. Not a fan of that at all.
I was glad I was able to see Circus day and night, night is so much better and so many less tiny kids and strollers. Shy of Grandkids someday, I doubt I'd go back. FLE I was able to see most of it over the construction walls, the impression I got was it is indeed an upgrade to the back of the castle visually. Photographers delight.
It can be upto 2 more years before the rest of the walls come down around Dwarf so it will be ugly for a while yet, that is still a great deal of lumber back there. What I want to experience is how they tie in the old Fantasyland attractions to the FLE. The castle type brick walls jet out in areas but they are themed so differently than the carousel, Pooh, PP, Small World. They redid the facades and they are much better however how will they merge these with FLE. Rumors are they are now considering moving the Tea Cups up against the Carousel, which would make sense they are off in limbo land yet I can't figure wrap my brain around how the imagineers are going to tie it together.

As for day vs. night, I suppose you could say that for any location on property.

DHS, I could go either way and most of the MK. Epcot is a nice night venue and I usually do nights there. Now I hope they fix the Nations fountain again before you get there. It just had a major rehab and WAS cool, but in a few short months many lights are broken and it looks pretty bad so they are going to have to do it twice. AK is pretty cool at night, did that a few times but the lighting is almost too low for the weird sidewalks there. Circus was just way more appealing at night than day. I highly recommend night unless you are toting real small kids.

The water features are what have really stood out to me in the videos I've seen. Getting beyond the Utilidors has really let the Imagineers make some spectacular changes.

Me too. Beyond pretty, it is usually calming. I worry about all the sitting walls. I get the seating intention, I also visualize CM's chasing kids running and standing up on the sitting walls. I can see that area now, some parents plopp'n on the wall and it is break time from their kids while they take advantage of the WiFi area provided.

I've never been a huge fan of FL, but I'm actually pretty excited to see this expansion in December. Will it become my new favorite land? Most definitely not. But, it was the one land that needed this more than any other, IMO.

Sadly, there are way too many areas that need some TLC. Disney has their work cut out for them. I would not want to be the one to prioritize the list.

Oh, and with you 100% on the Meet-n-Greets. Couldn't have cared less before, ain't gonna change now.

Meet n Greets on steroids! It is crazy to devote that much acreage and dollars when they use to pop out of nowhere without capital outlay and the end result is same, Photo-op and autograph. Epcot bugs me even more.
I resent the intrusion of Meet n Greets galore at Epcot and now that they are moving from Future World into the World Showcase I'd like to pinch the brainchild of that decision.

And if they are really going to close Sids at DHS, it best be for a Starbucks not a Duffy Meet n Greet.

[HauntedGabe]

I've said for a while that I didn't think FLE would be all that they're hoping it will be.

Hopefully the Mine Coaster will be something glorious, because if not, your marquee attraction for the expansion is a restaurant.

I think the expansion really needed 3 rides, and granted I haven't been to the park to get the actual scope and layout of the new fantasyland, but with all the beautiful landscaping they've put in place I'm not sure where they could add another attraction in the future.

I've been saying HOLY ROCK, forever. lol.

Yep that ship has kinda sailed. They could have done anything they wanted when they moved the employee back area and put in the street, now it would be another mega expense. Doubt that would happen. My thought is the restaurant is the crown jewel. That coaster acreage isn't that big. It might be a different type of coaster but I fear it might not be all that we hope for it. There is a lot riding on that coaster that was an afterthought to the original FLE plans. As I walked past the coaster area, boy it is a small area and they have to have a queue somewhere.

[Mo Noyz]

C'mon, people.

First of all, we're talking about Fantasyland here. A land that was ALWAYS meant for the little ones. In truth, it shouldn't even contain a rollercoaster. It's more a nice throw in for the adults escorting their children there.

There was always a very limited appeal to FL, especially if you didn't have little ones in tow. Now that appeal has at least been expanded a bit. even if only visually.

Let's try to keep this whole thing in perspective.

[HauntedGabe]

C'mon, people.

First of all, we're talking about Fantasyland here. A land that was ALWAYS meant for the little ones. In truth, it shouldn't even contain a rollercoaster. It's more a nice throw in for the adults escorting their children there.

There was always a very limited appeal to FL, especially if you didn't have little ones in tow. Now that appeal has at least been expanded a bit. even if only visually.

Let's try to keep this whole thing in perspective.

Fantasyland was not intended only for little ones. Small World set the bar and was created for a Worlds Fair not as a kiddy attraction. Tagging FL as Kiddieland is Kool-aid I won't drink. FL evolved into a land that only small children could tolerate over time, FLE was to change that image. Visually it has. Attractions, time will tell. When the MK opened FL was a big draw for adults especially SM for all of the guests that had heard of it during the Worlds Fair but were unable to visit.

My children rode roller coasters from the time their height allowed and stating matter of factly that it shouldn't be there and is just another excuse for ill conceived projects by imagineers. The coaster isn't a throw in, it was a substitute for the flop of an idea of Fairyland that the vast majority of the fan community balked at causing the whole project to be reimagineered and dragged onto 2014. A brand new project forced to create something that would fit into limited space and disrupt the timeline of the entire project.

Circus was created for the little children to replace Toon area and removing Dumbo from the FL area aided that vision. Even that area continues to have a coaster though its new theming is very Six Flag-ish this time around. 2x4's and chicken wire along a few props to view in the queue doesn't scream imagineering, it is actually what the old Universal kept taking hits for.

[Mo Noyz]

OK, would it have been better if I said it was aimed mostly at little ones?

Peter Pan, Snow White, Mr. Toad/Pooh...marketing those to adults would be quite an uphill battle. So we gave up Snow White and got Mermaid and, eventually, Mine Train out of the deal? And a land, by your own admission, that is more pleasing aesthetically?

Sounds like a win, IMO.

It's a land based almost entirely on Disney cartoons that were aimed at children. Doesn't sound like anything has changed in that regard.

[supernova]

I've been saying HOLY ROCK, forever. lol.

I'd say that pretty much sums it up nicely. From the pictures and videos I've seen, they spent WAY too much time building scenery that doesn't go anywhere. The Little Mermaid facade and queue are more elaborate than the lackluster ride itself. The rest of Fantasyland looks way too much like the Harry Potter stuff over at Universal. We've gone from a silly little renfaire theme to castle walls and archways. Yep, HP land for sure.

[HauntedGabe]

I'd say that pretty much sums it up nicely. From the pictures and videos I've seen, they spent WAY too much time building scenery that doesn't go anywhere. The Little Mermaid facade and queue are more elaborate than the lackluster ride itself. The rest of Fantasyland looks way too much like the Harry Potter stuff over at Universal. We've gone from a silly little renfaire theme to castle walls and archways. Yep, HP land for sure.

Thank you. The fan community of CA rates Mermaid as a solid D ticket, a fill in ride not an E Ticket that should have gone in at FLE for the amount of dollars and time invested to create FLE. Gaston's has around an 80 person capacity, that puzzles me too. I will enjoy a stroll through it and soak up the ambiance however I expected more than ambiance for that type of an investment. 2 years down the road when the construction walls are down I am curious to see how Disney blends the Castle-ish FLE with the Fair theme of the older attractions or if the old and new themes will continue to conflict with each other begging for a clear identity for Fantasyland.

I know a mid level BOG CM being currently trained and we've been talking with him. This restaurant will IMO will be worth the time and money invested, Disney's revenue should exceed their original expectations. But if I were the Empress of Disney and got to decide which park needed the most help in the dining arena the weakest park to me would have been DHS. That park begs for a nice QS lunch and a better evening dining choices.

[HauntedGabe]

OK, would it have been better if I said it was aimed mostly at little ones?

Peter Pan, Snow White, Mr. Toad/Pooh...marketing those to adults would be quite an uphill battle. So we gave up Snow White and got Mermaid and, eventually, Mine Train out of the deal? And a land, by your own admission, that is more pleasing aesthetically?

Sounds like a win, IMO.

It's a land based almost entirely on Disney cartoons that were aimed at children. Doesn't sound like anything has changed in that regard.

We are not obviously going to agree on this. I'm not in the camp that Fantasyland was ALWAYS a kiddieland. Disney just allowed it get stale. Other lands tweaked their attractions better than Fantasyland. I did go back to the announcement at D23 and look for any innuendos that FLE would be for the Kidos. I didn't find that to be the case. More the fan base brought that loudly to Disney's attention.

After visiting the MK for 4 decades I never had the impression that lands were designed for specific age demographics. Until a decade ago I loved the tea cups, still like them but age does ya in sometimes. I think 20K grabbed more than little kids, my DH and I always rode the carousel and continued that when we had children, it is such a cool carousel. While I understand the removal of the Skyway it too was enjoyed by all ages. My Dads favorite ride from the 1970's till now was Small World, his soft spot from the Worlds Fair. I always ride at least once each trip. I liked Toad and there was a large outcry from adults when that came to an end. Snow White, I don't find a meet and greet an upgrade, it ticks me off actually to remove an attraction for a meet and greet.

IMO Fantasyland was all inclusive. Pooh I've always been disappointed with, even my DD when small wasn't impressed. Animatronics had came a long way by the time that attraction was re-worked into Pooh and Pooh paled in comparison to what Islands did in Seuss Landings, Pooh should have been so much more. And that is likely to be my overall impression of the ATTRACTIONS in FLE, for the vast amount of money spent and time devoted, Mermaid and Belle just are not E's to me for babies or adults and longevity interest isn't likely there. Beauty seems to be the E!

The coaster is still in limbo land, Disney is not touting many details just an odd video. I'm guarded with the coaster, not getting my hopes up just yet. Silence on the coaster is deafening. Disney touted so many details about every other aspect of FLE. Curious if nothing else.