Avatar...What's the big deal?

[DAR]

How old are you? I think that has a bearing on this. I was privileged to visit WDW in the late 70s & early 80s. That was the high-water mark as far as I'm concerned. Since the mid to late 90s I've seen a consistent downgrade of attractions, upkeep, and service. Is it cynical to notice and then comment on that? You have a right to believe whatever you want but I know Disney used to be much more creative and daring than they currently are.

I'm 37 and I visited WDW in every decade since 1978.

Does Disney make mistakes? Of course they do. But their batting average is better than most theme parks out there. I've never had a bad experience in the twelve times I've visited so I'm not going rip on them for something I've never personally experienced.

[zippitydoodah]

Everyone is obviously entitled to their opinion. No one is disputing that. It seems that there is just an air of automatic negativity. To judge negatively before a blueprint is leaked onto the net, is silly. To automatically judge negatively especially if you've never seen Avatar is presumptuous. I am old enough to have lived through the 70's and 80's at WDW. I think Disney will always reinvent themselves. Some people will love it and some wont. I hope the Avatar land is awesome. If it's not, well so be it. I just think Disney has got it right so many more times then wrong.

Yes, but I'm not doubting that they'll "do a good job" or whatever, that kind of thing I'll wait till it's done. I'm doubting the idea in the first place. They could make a really awesomely-themed twilight land and I still would think it's a horrible idea haha. Oh course, it WOULD probably be really popular (oh god, can you imagine all the shrieking 13 year old girls in Disney World? ugh). It's more the topic that I think is a bad idea.

Oh, and dar, that's fine but I'm saying that this is a pretty popular opinion (the day it was announced my facebook wall was COVERED in upset Disney fans complaining about it) and it's not just people who hate recent Disney in general. I know from my facebook that Lori (Lou's friend who is on the podcast occasionally) doesn't like the idea either (or at least didn't when it was announced) and she's the most positive person regarding Disney ever! It's just not something many people are excited about even before it's built, and I don't think that's a good sign...

[supernova]

Yes, but I'm not doubting that they'll "do a good job" or whatever, that kind of thing I'll wait till it's done. I'm doubting the idea in the first place. They could make a really awesomely-themed twilight land and I still would think it's a horrible idea haha. Oh course, it WOULD probably be really popular (oh god, can you imagine all the shrieking 13 year old girls in Disney World? ugh). It's more the topic that I think is a bad idea.

Oh, and dar, that's fine but I'm saying that this is a pretty popular opinion (the day it was announced my facebook wall was COVERED in upset Disney fans complaining about it) and it's not just people who hate recent Disney in general. I know from my facebook that Lori (Lou's friend who is on the podcast occasionally) doesn't like the idea either (or at least didn't when it was announced) and she's the most positive person regarding Disney ever! It's just not something many people are excited about even before it's built, and I don't think that's a good sign...

It truly sickens me sometimes that people insist on the need to be super positive about all-things Disney. I'm a fan. We all are. We must be, anyway, otherwise we wouldn't waste time registering for a board like this. But as fans, we have the right to complain as much as sing Disney's praises.

Was Toad a classic attraction? Perhaps. Was removing it in favor of better technology and something that today's generation, both young and old, can better associate with a good idea? Perhaps. But the fact is that most of the people who enjoyed the attraction probably never bothered seeing Wind & the Willows because, let's face it, the film was pretty forgetable. If you showed a child between the ages of 4 and 14 Toad and Pooh and asked what they'd rather ride, I would guess they'd choose Pooh just for the familiarity factor. Disney allowed the Toad characters and story to fade away.

I say all this because last year, my friend Emily, her boyfriend, and his two kids (they just got married two months ago) visited WDW for the very first time. Of course, she turned to me for tips, and helped her as best I could. One day while I was at work and my cell phone rang. I picked up and all I heard was, "OK, what the #*&@ was that???" She rode Snow White, got off the ride, and immediately felt the need to call me and complain. She hated it. To the point that she skipped Peter Pan because the line was long and she didn't feel the need to waste time there. Being from Philadelphia, she is more used to Great Adventure, Dorney Park, and Sesame Place, with rides. Not dark rides.

The Pooh attraction in Japan is a trackless system. Same rides as ours, only theirs spins I believe, but the cars are free-moving, guided by sensors, that trigger not just direction, but movement of the cars (bouncing, spinning, floating, etc).

Where am I going with any of this? I'm not entirely sure. But I DO know that the people who insist on wearing rose colored glasses about how Disney can do no wrong should take them off every now and again and look at it from a business prosepective, or just the prospective of a common customer, not some crazy uber-fan. Disney has made, and will continue to make, bad decisions. Walt himself was a total b00b on many levels, allowing his own personal fascination with nature and history cloud his judgement). These people are not gods, folks.

[supernova]

Gosh, I feel like I need supernova to vouch for me on this one, I think I've gotten into more than a few discussions on these forums where he thinks negatively of something Disney and I'm signing it's praises. I'm pretty sure he's been annoyed by how positive I am by everything Disney haha. It's not just "cynics and fanboys" who think this is a bad idea, and again by the comments on the Disney Parks Blog its the majority opinion.

Consider youreself vouched for.

[DAR]

Yes, but I'm not doubting that they'll "do a good job" or whatever, that kind of thing I'll wait till it's done. I'm doubting the idea in the first place. They could make a really awesomely-themed twilight land and I still would think it's a horrible idea haha. Oh course, it WOULD probably be really popular (oh god, can you imagine all the shrieking 13 year old girls in Disney World? ugh). It's more the topic that I think is a bad idea.

Oh, and dar, that's fine but I'm saying that this is a pretty popular opinion (the day it was announced my facebook wall was COVERED in upset Disney fans complaining about it) and it's not just people who hate recent Disney in general. I know from my facebook that Lori (Lou's friend who is on the podcast occasionally) doesn't like the idea either (or at least didn't when it was announced) and she's the most positive person regarding Disney ever! It's just not something many people are excited about even before it's built, and I don't think that's a good sign...

But don't they deserve at least a modicum of maybe they could pull this off. I mean it's still the top vacation destination, so they have to be doing something right.

[DAR]

It truly sickens me sometimes that people insist on the need to be super positive about all-things Disney. I'm a fan. We all are. We must be, anyway, otherwise we wouldn't waste time registering for a board like this. But as fans, we have the right to complain as much as sing Disney's praises.

Was Toad a classic attraction? Perhaps. Was removing it in favor of better technology and something that today's generation, both young and old, can better associate with a good idea? Perhaps. But the fact is that most of the people who enjoyed the attraction probably never bothered seeing Wind & the Willows because, let's face it, the film was pretty forgetable. If you showed a child between the ages of 4 and 14 Toad and Pooh and asked what they'd rather ride, I would guess they'd choose Pooh just for the familiarity factor. Disney allowed the Toad characters and story to fade away.

I say all this because last year, my friend Emily, her boyfriend, and his two kids (they just got married two months ago) visited WDW for the very first time. Of course, she turned to me for tips, and helped her as best I could. One day while I was at work and my cell phone rang. I picked up and all I heard was, "OK, what the #*&@ was that???" She rode Snow White, got off the ride, and immediately felt the need to call me and complain. She hated it. To the point that she skipped Peter Pan because the line was long and she didn't feel the need to waste time there. Being from Philadelphia, she is more used to Great Adventure, Dorney Park, and Sesame Place, with rides. Not dark rides.

The Pooh attraction in Japan is a trackless system. Same rides as ours, only theirs spins I believe, but the cars are free-moving, guided by sensors, that trigger not just direction, but movement of the cars (bouncing, spinning, floating, etc).

Where am I going with any of this? I'm not entirely sure. But I DO know that the people who insist on wearing rose colored glasses about how Disney can do no wrong should take them off every now and again and look at it from a business prosepective, or just the prospective of a common customer, not some crazy uber-fan. Disney has made, and will continue to make, bad decisions. Walt himself was a total **** on many levels, allowing his own personal fascination with nature and history cloud his judgement). These people are not gods, folks.

And that's why I'm taking a wait and see approach to this, it could very well end up being a dud or a massive success but for now we have no idea.

[zippitydoodah]

Where am I going with any of this? I'm not entirely sure. But I DO know that the people who insist on wearing rose colored glasses about how Disney can do no wrong should take them off every now and again and look at it from a business prosepective, or just the prospective of a common customer, not some crazy uber-fan. Disney has made, and will continue to make, bad decisions. Walt himself was a total b00b on many levels, allowing his own personal fascination with nature and history cloud his judgement). These people are not gods, folks.

Well, consider me somewhere in the middle. There are things about WDW I don't like of course, but nothing has ever bugged me enough to complain about it publicly I suppose (I mean, I'll give a bad review of a restaurant and there are a bunch of rides I will never, ever ride, but nothing I hate I guess). I've only been going for 15 years so I don't know the "old" WDW that everyone remembers and seems to be the biggest source of general complaints, so maybe that's it. I certainly don't see the point in always being negative, just to be negative (or making fun of the people who are overly positive for that matter) but, I agree with you 100% that everyone has the right to complain and we SHOULD voice our opinions on when things don't seem to be up to par, or else who knows what will come of the parks. Clearly this whole park idea bothers me enough to speak up about it... if enough people are speaking up (as seems to be happening) than maybe they'll rethink things just like they seem to have done with pixie hollow and a lot of the general girlie fantasyland stuff. That's the point, right?

[zippitydoodah]

And that's why I'm taking a wait and see approach to this, it could very well end up being a dud or a massive success but for now we have no idea.

People complained about the fantasyland expansion being too much about girls, and they re-planned it all out (no more pixie hallow, one general princess meet and greet instead of one for each, etc)... if no one is enthusiastic about this and voices their concerns, they could very well do the same.

[MartianCrab]

People complained about the fantasyland expansion being too much about girls, and they re-planned it all out (no more pixie hallow, one general princess meet and greet instead of one for each, etc)... if no one is enthusiastic about this and voices their concerns, they could very well do the same.

I hope so.

[MartianCrab]

"I'm going to Disney World!"

[DAR]

I hope so.

You hope that there are Princess Meet n Greets?

[DAR]

And what would you like the Imagineers to do? And don't say Beastly Kingdom because that project was dead and buried long ago.

[MartianCrab]

You hope that there are Princess Meet n Greets?

Read the bolded sections.

[MartianCrab]

And what would you like the Imagineers to do? And don't say Beastly Kingdom because that project was dead and buried long ago.

I'd like an original mind-blowing concept, executed in an industry changing format. They used to be trendsetters. I'd like to see them return to that form.

[Mo Noyz]

I'm not sure how one can react to this one way or the other since we really have no clue as to what they are planning.

I'd say DAR's wait and see approach is the only logical one.

Having feelings about something that we know absolutely nothing about is reactionary.