Test Track 2012 Update

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Originally Posted by doconeill

"not done" meaning they haven't finished building whatever they are building, which I couldn't remember - but now I think it was just a new bathroom building to replace the ones by Peter Pan so they can rework the queue over there.

There was also reports that they were going to rework the flow in that area as well to remove the archway chokepoint, but I don't know if that it still planned.

So that building doesn't fit in the "demolish and replace with another attraction building" criteria either.

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You are correct. Bathrooms gone attached to PP. New ones going where SkyWay Boarding area was. New sidewalk area is going in to fix the arch.
Waiting to see how that pans out because at present time the new one will dump guests into the entrance area of the Haunted House unless they send everyone through the new queue for Haunted Mansion. HM entrance is always a bottle neck during regular and peak times, so it seems they are just going to add more problems with moving the sidewalk that is unless everyone eventually filters through the new queue, which might be why Disney did this in the first place. :idea:

Excellent post, HG. Wonderful insight.

I have a question, though. Maybe it can be answered, maybe not.

Why did "opening up" PI end up as such a disaster yet City Walk continues to thrive?

City Walk has its share of crime. So does that parking garage thing. I believe Universal has a better model. City Walk is in the Hub of all transportation, much like Disney's TTC. In that area all guests enter/exit each park, City Walk, load their fairy boats to their resorts and exit to the garage area parking. So while there is a lot of security in that central area, they were really smart to localize it. Between all the security cameras in that area and uniformed along with plain clothed it is much easier to keep a watchful eye.

NOTE: Disney CA took a page from Universal Florida. If you take a look at the concept of Disney CA they pretty much copied Universal FL's layout when they added DTD CA.

Interesting.

Seems as though Disney could have controlled it even more at PI. It's completely sequestered. Two bottleneck entrances, and nowhere near as wide open a space as CW.

I've never been to DCA so I don't know how it's set up. Why was it easier to implement there than at PI?

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Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

Interesting.

Seems as though Disney could have controlled it even more at PI. It's completely sequestered. Two bottleneck entrances, and nowhere near as wide open a space as CW.

I've never been to DCA so I don't know how it's set up. Why was it easier to implement there than at PI?

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Think of Disneyland as a big triangle.
Resort area/Disneyland Park/CA Park

And in the middle of it is their DTD unit.



To Understand the history of DTD the best details are found in the Birnbaum's Disney World Guides. They have photo's and living arrangements for this area and the transitions of restaurants, stores and things to do. Start around 1988 when reading the old ones.



PI, is in a far off area of the property at the edge of the property line. Off property now, not so good in some directions. Remember this was the area that Walt dreamed of turning into his first version of a dreamed EPCOT style of living. Where apartments would be, their own market place, homes, resort amenities like water, golf etc. There wasn't really a DTD, it was more of a mini shopping area surrounded by town homes, a golf resort and a few homes and not far off the Tree Houses. The marketplace had a small grocery area. Eventually it became a small Disney Shopping area until they were building PI and then the MarketPlace became DTD and mega stores popped up. Before that they were quaint little shops. MarketPlace/DTD has had so many names in the last 25 years I'd have to really think to name them all. It shows you that they have never really resolved that area.

The Walt Disney World Village. :)

You didn't really answer my question, but I appreciated the post.

I'll try it again. PI was an add onto the MarketPlace. They did have very good control of PI when it opened. Had they not added on the West it might have still been a sound, lock down night life area. Between the West and the surrounding neighborhood changing dramatically, public transportation coming to the entrance and free parking made PI so much more vulnerable. That is a great deal of acreage to keep secured. 120 acres. Any better?

My opinion as this area, early 80's started to crumble was Disney missed the opportunity to bulldoze the old marketplace back in the late 80's. They could have re-used that area for Typhoon Lagoon and built their night life shopping area where they built Typhoon Lagoon, away from the public buses and free parking area that became a nuisance.

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Originally Posted by HauntedGabe

City Walk has its share of crime. So does that parking garage thing. I believe Universal has a better model. City Walk is in the Hub of all transportation, much like Disney's TTC. In that area all guests enter/exit each park, City Walk, load their fairy boats to their resorts and exit to the garage area parking. So while there is a lot of security in that central area, they were really smart to localize it. Between all the security cameras in that area and uniformed along with plain clothed it is much easier to keep a watchful eye.

NOTE: Disney CA took a page from Universal Florida. If you take a look at the concept of Disney CA they pretty much copied Universal FL's layout when they added DTD CA.

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Plus, is there really easy in/out access from Citywalk? Having to go through the parking hub, vs. being a short walk from an uncontrolled parking lot probably makes a difference.

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Originally Posted by doconeill

Plus, is there really easy in/out access from Citywalk? Having to go through the parking hub, vs. being a short walk from an uncontrolled parking lot probably makes a difference.

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Very good point!!! Lots of lessons learned from the DownTownDisney Complex.

Do you get the idea as Disney keeps adding to DTD, it just keeps not working? From stuffing Planet Hollywood, Circus, AMC Theaters, next a bowling alley. It doesn't evolve, it just keeps getting more disjointed. It is by far my least favorite area of WDW. The bleeding never ends.

I don't know. It just seems with two relatively small entrances on each end it would have been just as easy to secure as CW, even considering the difference in the parking situation.

It was certainly more secure when it was a hard ticketed area.

It was... The problem I think lies in the overall layout... Like doc said... If PI was where the West Side is now... Then it would have worked... By splitting DTD Marketplace and West Side with a hard ticket area was a mistake...

Oh, there's no question about that. Getting back and forth between the two by walking along the parking lot was absurd. I'll never forget the first tim eI walked that route and wondered to myself, "is this the way I'm supposed to be going"? Though, it WAS comical watching so many people with that "how did we end up in the parking lot" look on their face as they soldiered on.

Yes I clearly remember those looks... Umm wait this is how we get to the House of Blues...? Through the parking lot...?

I miss the old Marketplace and the quaint Christmas shop with Mickey's Christmas Carol windows. I don't enjoy the area as much now that the mega stores are there. I miss PI -- particularly Adventurer's club and comedy warehouse ... Have never enjoyed West side ... we do like DIsney quest which I understand is going away at some point. I too have wondered why PI collasped and citywalk hasn't.... great explanation HauntedGabe. makes sense.

I miss the Virgin Megastore. I'm a huge music fan so I used to hang out in there for a long time. Sometimes we'd go to DD JUST to go to Virgin.