New Imagination sponsor: Colorvision?

[doconeill]

Walt's EPCOT didn't come about for the most part because he died, and the corporate types, including his brother, didn't necessarily share his vision for such a massive amount of spending.

Walt wanted the city built first - but the others balked on it. Walt gave in and said they would build the Magic Kingdom first, which appeased the money guys because they could get revenue sooner. When he died, everything else was put on hold, and eventually canceled. EPCOT itself was rebranded as Walt Disney World. And even the MK and the resorts had cutbacks in areas.

I also think that Walt's original vision was over-idealized as well, and probably would be scaled back. Celebration was developed with some of the ideas, but obviously not nearly to the grand scale that Walt wanted. Speaking of futuristic, retro or otherwise - if EPCOT did get built, it probably still would be an example of a futuristic city and not likely duplicated anywhere at this point.

[Mo Noyz]

Not Wa'ts vision of his amusement park. He got that. Not even a development of a city. They built Celebration. But I'm talking about his "city of tomorrow". Check the old map (should be pictures online) an tell me how close they came to that original vision with what became the Epcot amusement park. Crazy city of the future? Yeah, you know what? We're not going to build that. Another amusement park where families can go and spend time together? Sure, that's a bit more reasonable for us to construct.

I'm not arguing what COULD have been. I'm stating what the developers chose to do after Walt's death. Not even close.

OK, I get what you're saying now. I thought you were initially saying Walt himself would have never built it.

What was boneheaded about his original EPCOT scheme?

[Mo Noyz]

I also think that Walt's original vision was over-idealized as well, and probably would be scaled back. Celebration was developed with some of the ideas, but obviously not nearly to the grand scale that Walt wanted. Speaking of futuristic, retro or otherwise - if EPCOT did get built, it probably still would be an example of a futuristic city and not likely duplicated anywhere at this point.

Couldn't agree more with any of this.

Well said.

[supernova]

I also think that Walt's original vision was over-idealized as well, and probably would be scaled back. Celebration was developed with some of the ideas, but obviously not nearly to the grand scale that Walt wanted. Speaking of futuristic, retro or otherwise - if EPCOT did get built, it probably still would be an example of a futuristic city and not likely duplicated anywhere at this point.

Instead of EPCOT, we got Celebration. Nowhere near the same.

[supernova]

OK, I get what you're saying now. I thought you were initially saying Walt himself would have never built it.

What was boneheaded about his original EPCOT scheme?

Walt was a dreamer, who teetered on the line between brilliant and bafoon.

[Mo Noyz]

I'd love to hear you explain that one.

[supernova]

OK, I get what you're saying now. I thought you were initially saying Walt himself would have never built it.

Sadly, the acronym has become a word or amusement park name. And nothing about the amusement park (especially today) fits the acronym in any way. To keep Walt's vision, they just tacked the name onto the park. But it is in no way even remotely close to what "EPCOT" was to be.

[Mo Noyz]

I'm not talking about the park. I'm talking about the city.

This conversation is getting a bit confusing.

[supernova]

That's what I meant. Walt's original vision for EPCOT was a city, the whole experimental prototype nonsense. Instead, after his death, they took the acronym, used it as the name of a park, and all we have left of Walt's city idea is the model inside the TTA.

The park we have today in no way warrants the EPCOT acronym, and has more become a name, which I guess is why the Disney company finally dropped EPCOT in favor of Epcot. Although the whole Experimental and Tomorrow bits are what covinced the Imagineers to go with "Future World" which, as we've already discussed, enabled them to shoot themselves in the foot going forward. Future World is no longer anything to do with future.

[doconeill]

Don't forget...the park was called "EPCOT Center", and wasn't really EPCOT itself. EPCOT, in terms of the land and projects, is what is today called Walt Disney World, and more formally, the Reedy Creek Improvement District. EPCOT Center was roughly at the geographical center of the property, and approximately where they "city" would have been built.

EPCOT Center basically just took the original project acronym and location, and became a "showcase" park for various things. It was actually two different competing concepts, that they literally "pushed together" into one (really, they pushed the two development models together). Eventually, they dropped "Center" and made EPCOT an actual word, since the acronym really didn't apply to anything that was actually built.

[supernova]

Exactly. Which is why they eventually stopped capitalizing the letters and went with Epcot. To the best of my recollection (unless it just wasn't as blatant and in our faces), the script on the want was the first place they showcased the lowe case lettering?

[doconeill]

I don't remember what was the first case of using the lower case letters, but I think it was much earlier than the wand...mid- to late-90s I think.

Didn't they for a time fool around with the name and having the year after it, trying to model it more like the World's Fair?

[supernova]

The name or the logo?

[HauntedGabe]

I don't remember what was the first case of using the lower case letters, but I think it was much earlier than the wand...mid- to late-90s I think.

Didn't they for a time fool around with the name and having the year after it, trying to model it more like the World's Fair?

I think

EPCOT Center- opening
EPCOT-'94
Epcot-'96

[Mo Noyz]

That's what I meant. Walt's original vision for EPCOT was a city, the whole experimental prototype nonsense. .

I guess I'm not seeing where the "nonsense" is.

If Walt had lived another 10 years, I strongly believe we'd have an actual city. Scaled down, or otherwise. You don't go through all the trouble he went through to acquire 40 square miles of prime central Florida land, sweet talk your way into being able to annex said land thereby being able to govern yourself, and apply for a permit to build a nuclear plant just to build a clone of your theme park from California. It simply wouldn't be worth the investment.