Avatarland DOA?

[HauntedGabe]

I really believe Pandas would be a draw. I think Pandas would bring in visitors that have no interest in Disney.
And yes they are cheaper than a lot of expansions.

The problem is, how often will those same guests come to see those Pandas? AK's big problem is for a good chunk of guests they hop in and hop right out again usually to DHS. Disney's biggest problem with both DHS and AK is AK remains a half day park and for many DHS has also become a half day experience so many guests consolidate the two into one day and leave room to skip over to the Universal Property to take in a day or two of Harry and stuff.

Yes, there are still die heart Disney Fans that believe it is sacralige to leave Disney Property but the lure of Harry isn't something Disney seems to be able to beat down. Frankly, I don't think FLE will stop the skipping off to Harry, and with Universal having two additional expansion projects vertical currently, Disney is still pondering Avatar. Disney is getting great at start, stop, re-evaluate.

I don't believe the draw of Pandas will alter the AK/DHS consolidation day. The attendance figures are already jaded with counting the guests twice hopping between the two parks. I have enough faith in Disney that they recognize they need to keep their guests in these parks longer, not only to spend additional money in the parks but tap the guests for an additional day at least in their parks and the only way they are going to do that is to pack more attractions into those parks. As much as I personally would love to see pandas at AK, I'm hard pressed to say I'd stay in AK much longer than I do just because of the Pandas. I have a soft spot for them, but 20 minutes of staring and gazing, I'm done. Likely not to come back and gaze again at Pandas the same trip, but I have been known to pop in, ride Everest again and pop out to another park.

My last trip, I hit the MK 5 out of 6 days for something or other. (fairness, I had to be at the MK for my son to let me in on days he was working, closest park) but if that was AK, I would have gone through the turnstile and got on a a bus elsewhere. Disney needs to start a strategic plan for their parks, well thought out this time. Get out of that knee jerk, plug the bleeding hole decision making. They are intelligent enough to know they need major attractions to keep interest growing and they have to know that where many guests use to spend a day in Future World, it isn't happening now.

[MJMcb]

I think pandas would do a few things

1. Keeps guests at DAK for another hour or so, maybe even to the 345 parade

2. increase sales of plushes, panda plushes

3. increase locals going to the park

4. decrease the number of guests who just plain old skip DAK

Remember, pandas are only found in 4 other zoos in this country: San Diego, Atlanta, Memphis and D.C. Thus, most people in this country will never seen one. This would be their only chance

[HauntedGabe]

I think pandas would do a few things

1. Keeps guests at DAK for another hour or so, maybe even to the 345 parade

2. increase sales of plushes, panda plushes

3. increase locals going to the park

4. decrease the number of guests who just plain old skip DAK

Remember, pandas are only found in 4 other zoos in this country: San Diego, Atlanta, Memphis and D.C. Thus, most people in this country will never seen one. This would be their only chance

I understand. And ya, for a year or so the cuties might bring in more locals, though those are not the big spenders of family trips, they might buy a panda instead of a Minnie Mouse and if the guests really don't like AK at all, they might pop in to see the Pandas but I doubt they will stay till the parade if the only reason they entered was to see the pandas. I believe it is the zoo part of AK that is failing coupled with the lack of attractions. The park is huge, lots of walking for few attractions between the E's. My opinion that is what they have to fix and I don't believe 2 pandas will address the problems of that park.

[supernova]

I disagree with that. I think Star Wars land would be great. So would an Oz or even an Middle Earth

I just think the choice here, Pandora, is the wrong one

There again, as an outside property, I think Star Wars found the perfect home in DHS. The concept of what that park is lends itself to an amalgam of concepts thrown into one area. It's basically Universal Studios on a much smaller scale. Animal Kingdom was all about animals. Whether Disney wants to admit it or not, it's a zoo, nothing more.

[StewbotTalborg]

I still would really rather not see Pandora come to the parks, but part of me is interested to see if the deal does fall through with Disney if Universal swoops in and gives Cameron the keys just to prove that they are the prominent creative force in theme parks.

Imagine if Disney strikes out with both Rowling and Cameron and Universal hit home runs with both...

[HauntedGabe]

I still would really rather not see Pandora come to the parks, but part of me is interested to see if the deal does fall through with Disney if Universal swoops in and gives Cameron the keys just to prove that they are the prominent creative force in theme parks.

Imagine if Disney strikes out with both Rowling and Cameron and Universal hit home runs with both...

I'd rather Disney not put that in AK either. Enough fans seem to be in this camp, the last thing Disney needs to do is spend boatloads of money to expand a park and guests still don't want to spend time there. I've flopped on my view after the initial announcement and the longer Avatar is bantered the less I like the idea. Disney has yet to release anything to win over fan approval or excitement, very telling in itself.

But yes, you have a strong point. Cameron is the type to puff his chest out and cross town, build something great for the competition. Disney has to be nervous about that. While I find FLE to be creative and it will be beautiful, face it, in California the major FLE E ticket already has faded in interest and has little wait a great deal of the time. With likely Transformers vertical and 2.0 Harry vertical Universal is taking great advantage of Disney's missteps and blatant neglect in other parks.

And they are going above and beyond. Where Universal has put in beautiful fountain shows Epcot is continuing to fill in many of theirs with Dirt and turning them into flower pots. The water surrounding the Land side of pavilions is just wasted, no creativity what-so-ever, same with the body of water around the ghost of the Odyssey. Universal is already showing they are a force to reckoned with these first two decades. They have done so much and continue to do so. A new stage show at DHS and a bowling alley in DTD just don't seem to challenge Universals creative spirit. I give Kudos to Universal for striking quickly and creatively with what guests want verses Disney's new approach of telling guests this IS what you want.

[JNota0005DakMC]

I still would really rather not see Pandora come to the parks, but part of me is interested to see if the deal does fall through with Disney if Universal swoops in and gives Cameron the keys just to prove that they are the prominent creative force in theme parks.

Imagine if Disney strikes out with both Rowling and Cameron and Universal hit home runs with both...

I honestly dont even think Universal will even touch this... they grabbed up HP because it was the highest grossing film series out there, and it has tremendous appeal to children and young teens... the fact is that Avatar does none of that... yeas it was a highly successful film... but here we are a few years later and no one is jumping up and down about this... why...? because it was a good movie... thats it...! today there is not really anything that can match up with that except for maybe LotR... I cannot see Peter Jackson letting Disney get their hands on that... unless they throw alot of money to put it in DHS...

[StewbotTalborg]

Where Universal has put in beautiful fountain shows Epcot is continuing to fill in many of theirs with Dirt and turning them into flower pots. The water surrounding the Land side of pavilions is just wasted, no creativity what-so-ever, same with the body of water around the ghost of the Odyssey. Universal is already showing they are a force to reckoned with these first two decades. They have done so much and continue to do so. A new stage show at DHS and a bowling alley in DTD just don't seem to challenge Universals creative spirit. I give Kudos to Universal for striking quickly and creatively with what guests want verses Disney's new approach of telling guests this IS what you want.

I feel like the major contributor to this sad fact is the size of the two creative divisions. At Disney, Imagineering is so large and bloated, there is a team in charge of each little thing and a VP above that. So to get one simple project done you have to work with numerous teams and consult for the approval of a multitude of executives all trying to prove that their position is justified and trying to climb the corporate ladder. Imagine having a stroke of creative genius and a brilliant idea that has to be approved and vetted by 10 different people who all want to get their groups in the mix and change your idea to put their name on the project and take some credit for the project.

Universal on the other hand - to my understanding - has a very small creative team. Only a handful of people to be exact. So when someone has an idea they can bounce it around with a few people and then get the ball in motion.

This is why, I think, we are seeing Universal create such inspired work in less time and for less money, while Disney has all these rumored brilliant ideas that take forever to come to fruition, are over-budget and never quite the way they were dreamed of. Too many hands in the pot!

[MJMcb]

There again, as an outside property, I think Star Wars found the perfect home in DHS. The concept of what that park is lends itself to an amalgam of concepts thrown into one area. It's basically Universal Studios on a much smaller scale. Animal Kingdom was all about animals. Whether Disney wants to admit it or not, it's a zoo, nothing more.

Its a lot more than a zoo

How many zoos you know have an Expedition Everest or a Festival of the Lion King. None

How many have a restaraunt as good as Yak & Yeti, none

Being a zoo is part of DAK but its more than just that

[MJMcb]

We sort of discuss this at end of the most recent Be Our Guest podcast, episode 479

[HauntedGabe]

And today the rumor mill is flying that Cameron agreed and 2 of the 3 main attractions are a go. And that construction contracts are about to be let.

Hmmm....thinking I'll wait for better confirmation. Like Avatar visually vertical. Visually vertical at Disney.

[HauntedGabe]

I feel like the major contributor to this sad fact is the size of the two creative divisions. At Disney, Imagineering is so large and bloated, there is a team in charge of each little thing and a VP above that. So to get one simple project done you have to work with numerous teams and consult for the approval of a multitude of executives all trying to prove that their position is justified and trying to climb the corporate ladder. Imagine having a stroke of creative genius and a brilliant idea that has to be approved and vetted by 10 different people who all want to get their groups in the mix and change your idea to put their name on the project and take some credit for the project.

Universal on the other hand - to my understanding - has a very small creative team. Only a handful of people to be exact. So when someone has an idea they can bounce it around with a few people and then get the ball in motion.

This is why, I think, we are seeing Universal create such inspired work in less time and for less money, while Disney has all these rumored brilliant ideas that take forever to come to fruition, are over-budget and never quite the way they were dreamed of. Too many hands in the pot!

And Universal with Transformers already vertical, HP 2.0 crossing two parks, vertical and what does Universal do?
Announce more investment funds for the parks I believe 1.5 Billion. The Universal parks have momentum and a draw this decade and they are taking advantage of the opportunity to make themselves a player in Central Florida.

[MJMcb]

several places are posting alleged leaked blue prints showing a huge building wiht the top floor being a Soarin type ride with the bottom floor being a water ride

[HauntedGabe]

several places are posting alleged leaked blue prints showing a huge building wiht the top floor being a Soarin type ride with the bottom floor being a water ride

Yeah, I've been watching the rumor unfold too. But there are so many blueprints of stuff that never happens.
I wonder how many have been created just for the empty space in Germany. Yet, FLE blueprints were leaked and those questions raised were ignored by Disney at D23. So who knows.

[Csmith041177]

I understand everyone's arguments. However, I am in favor of anything new in AK, whether it be Avatar related or something different. I'm not one of those who thinks AK is a half day park. However, I do think the park needs more attractions. Whatever gets me to that goal, i am for.