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WDW Radio # 772 – Disney Legend Marc Davis: The Man Who Shaped the Humor and Heart of Disneyland – From the WDW Radio Archives

This week, we open up the Archives and journey through the creative genius of Disney Legend Marc Davis with special guest, my friend, the late, great, historian and author Jim Korkis.

We’ll explore the wizardry behind Davis’s electromechanical marvels, and how Marc injected humor into beloved attractions such as the Haunted Mansion, Country Bear Jamboree, and the Enchanted Tiki Room, and learn about his lasting impact on Disneyland, Walt Disney World, and the 1964-65 New York World’s Fair. And you’ll be immersed in the stories of his iconic contributions to classic films, his analytical approach to animation, and how his mastery brought to life characters like Cinderella and the formidable Maleficent. You’ll also learn of the heartwarming love story between Marc and his equally talented wife, Alice, and the film they inspired.

It’s an episode filled with nostalgia, inspiration, and a touch of pixie dust, and just as we pay homage to the enduring legacy of Walt Disney’s “Renaissance Man.” And I invite you to remember look for the visual cues that celebrate his life and work next time you’re visiting the happiest and most magical places on Earth.

Summary

In this episode, Lou Mongello and Jim Korkis discuss the life and legacy of Disney Legend Marc Davis. They explore his work in animation, particularly his talent for creating memorable female characters. They also delve into his personal and professional relationship with his wife, Alice Davis.

The conversation highlights Marc Davis’ contributions to animated films such as Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, and Bambi. They also discuss his transition to Disneyland and his role in designing attractions.

Overall, the episode celebrates Marc Davis’ creativity, artistry, and lasting impact on the Disney company. This conversation explores the contributions and legacy of Disney Imagineer Mark Davis. It discusses his work on Disneyland attractions such as the Enchanted Tiki Room and Thunder Mesa, as well as his influence on films like Pirates of the Caribbean. The conversation also includes a trivia question and listener feedback.

Takeaways

  • Mark Davis was a highly talented animator known for his work on female characters in Disney films.
  • His personal and professional relationship with his wife, Alice Davis, was a significant influence on his work.
  • Davis’ contributions to animated films, such as Cinderella and Bambi, showcased his ability to convey emotion and create memorable characters.
  • His transition to Disneyland allowed him to apply his artistic skills to attraction design, leaving a lasting impact on the theme park industry.
  • Mark Davis’ legacy as a Disney Legend is characterized by his creativity, artistry, and ability to bring characters to life. Mark Davis was a key Imagineer who made significant contributions to Disneyland attractions.
  • His work on the Enchanted Tiki Room and Thunder Mesa showcased his creativity and attention to detail.
  • Davis’ influence extended beyond Disneyland to films like Pirates of the Caribbean.
  • His legacy lives on through his unique storytelling and humor in Disney attractions.

Chapters

[00:00] Introduction

[01:24] Highlighting the Life and Legacy of Marc Davis

[04:30] Guest Introduction: Jim Corkus

[08:16] Alice Davis and Her Love for Marc Davis

[09:38] Marc Davis’ Talent and Teaching Career

[12:04] Marc Davis’ Early Life and Animation Career

[13:33] Marc Davis’ Persistence and Success at Disney

[15:00] Marc Davis’ Work on Female Characters

[23:52] Marc Davis’ Contributions to Animated Films

[29:05] Marc Davis’ Work on Other Animated Films

[31:52] Marc Davis’ Work on Tinkerbell and Bambi

[40:20] Marc Davis’ Legacy as a Disney Legend

[40:32] Marc Davis’ Contributions to Disneyland

[46:22] Enchanted Tiki Room and Disneyland Attractions

[50:37] Thunder Mesa and the Western River Expedition

[57:41] Enchanted Snow Palace

[01:02:59] Marc Davis’ Legacy

[01:09:15] Marc Davis’ Influence on Films


What is your favorite Marc Davis attraction, gag, or character?

Share your thoughts in the WDW Radio Clubhouse at WDWRadio.com/Clubhouse, or call the voicemail at 407-900-9391 (WDW1) and share your story on the show.


Episode Transcript

Click Here To Read The Full Podcast Episode Transcript

Lou Mongello [00:00:07]:
In my continuing series highlighting Disney legends, I've been able to explore and in some cases, interview personally those people whose contributions to the company, animation and the theme parks continues to delight and entertain guests of all ages, from Mary Blair on show 415 to my interview with Tony Baxter on shows two Eightyn and 372. And one of my personal favorites still remains, having the privilege of visiting the home of Alice Davis back in 2010 and spending some time chatting with her about her work. And that was back on show 193. And while I was there, we also spent a lot of time discussing her personal and professional relationship with her husband, Mark Davis. And I will tell you that one of the most amazing things that's happened to me as a result of doing the show and sharing my passion for Disney was as I was walking out the door, she says, hey, you want to come down and see Mark's studio? And my brains fell out of my head and I walked down the stairs and I saw his studio and his desk, and I sat in the chair that she said that Walt would sit in when he visited Mark in the office to talk about what he was working, you know, with that, obviously, it's only logical and fitting that we discuss the amazing work of her husband, Mark Davis. And in doing so, I wanted to bring on somebody who not only appreciates and knows his work well, but also had a chance to speak with Mark himself. And so I want you to please join me in welcoming back to the show another man whose work I appreciate and respect, another great storyteller, author and all around nice guy, Mr. Jim Korkis.

Jim Korkis [00:01:53]:
Well, Lou, thank you. Yeah, don't set the bar too high there, but I appreciate that. And yes, I did have the wonderful opportunity to meet and talk with several times, both Mark and Alice. And it's hard to realize that Mark passed away in January of 2000. So that's 15 years ago. My gosh. So there's a whole generation of people who may not know him. And Alice, as you know from your experience with her at the studio, they used to call her a real pistol because she is just a force of nature, a real fireball, and loved Mark dearly.

Jim Korkis [00:02:41]:
And the very first time I met them, I did not realize how talented Alice was because she would always send the focus to Mark and make sure that Mark was comfortable and that Mark would remember such and such a story to tell. And it wasn't until the second time that I met her that it was like, oh, my gosh, you did all of these costumes for small world and for pirates, and you're such a talented artist in your own life. And one of the things, speaking of books, one of the books that I hope that somebody will publish one of these days is Mark would send her illustrated love letters, and when he was traveling, she would send him illustrated love letters. And she has kept all of those, and many of them are in color, little watercolor, pastel type thing. So it really is a great love story. Mark was teaching at Shenard Art Institute. He taught there for 17 years, and he had a class every night, every Tuesday night. And the class lasted 3 hours.

Jim Korkis [00:04:12]:
And there were 90 to 100 students in the class. And when he would draw on the blackboard, the students made an arrangement with the administration there that they wouldn't erase Mark's chalk drawings, because the next morning, students who weren't able to get into his class came in and were studying his drawings on board there. And it got to the point where sometimes Mark would come in the next Tuesday and his drawings from the previous week were still up there on the board because people were looking at that. And Alice was a student in his classes. Apparently, there was no monkey business, and she was a student of his for nine years. And then they hooked up and got married. And, my gosh, what a colorful couple. They didn't have any kids, but what Mark and Alice did, I can't remember your interview with her because I remember they were very modest about this, is they would support young artists financially.

Jim Korkis [00:05:33]:
They had a room at the house they would take in, and the room was there for visiting artists. Like when Bill Titler would come in, they would have them there, and Alice would cook. Alice was known for cooking. But we're going to be talking about Mark today. And, of course, I want to quickly.

Lou Mongello [00:05:55]:
Go back to something that you said, because it was interesting that you talked about the love story and the notes and the way we were there to talk to Alice about Alice. But it was interesting, and we sort of made note of how much of her conversation centered around her husband. And when she toured us around her house, which is a museum in and of itself, it is.

Jim Korkis [00:06:17]:
The walls are just.

Lou Mongello [00:06:20]:
Know, like Walton, Lillian. They love to travel. They love to travel to a lot of different polynesian islands.

Jim Korkis [00:06:27]:
So there's so much New guinea especially. They collected stuff from New guinea. And, in fact, Mark put together a book that hasn't been published yet, but I hope Disney editions is thinking of doing it. It's called the bite of a crocodile, which is where all these sketches that Mark did in New guinea, and some of them he developed into full scale paintings. They're just wonderful.

Lou Mongello [00:06:55]:
Yeah, but you're right. She had, throughout the house, I remember even in the bathrooms, she had those cards and those love letters that they had drawn framed up there, which were beautiful. And of course, I was like, I am the worst guy in the world because all I do is run to the Hallmark store, like, the day after I miss an anniversary or something.

Jim Korkis [00:07:14]:
Well, yes, you are. Yes, you are.

Lou Mongello [00:07:16]:
I am. And you know what? Know, you really got a sense from her years after her husband passed, just how much in love they really were. And to that point, Disney actually recognized that, too. And people who are listening may not realize that in the Pixar film up, Carl and Ellie Fredrickson are partially modeled after Alice, Mark and Alice, because they've had that love of adventure. Right. And the most important things in life were spending time together and being with each other. So I think a lot of people probably don't know that. But, yeah, let's sort of go back.

Jim Korkis [00:07:57]:
And also, Disney is well aware of this, or at least some of the people who used to work at Disney were, because their windows on Main street are right next to each.

Lou Mongello [00:08:11]:
A. It's a, like you said, a true love story that continues even to this day. Alice, fortunately, is still around, and she attends a lot of events, and you can hear and see the way she.

Jim Korkis [00:08:25]:
Talks about her husband, who, and she stands up for.

Lou Mongello [00:08:28]:
Absolutely.

Jim Korkis [00:08:28]:
You know, my gosh, if she feels at some event Mark's not getting credit or enough credit on something, she'll step in and say, look, this is what this Walt called Mark his Renaissance man. And Disney editions, I guess it was last year, released a know Mark Davis Renaissance man, which has a nice selection of his artwork and has essays from some of the people who knew and worked with Mark. So for those people who are listening to the podcast, and this is something you're interested in, go check that out on Amazon and add that to your collection. And also add Jim Korkis books to your collection. Go to themeparkpress.com. There's two new books. Everything I know I learned from Disney animated feature films and advice for living happily ever after. And the vault of Walt, volume four just came out.

Jim Korkis [00:09:34]:
So go to themeparkpress.com and you'll get all the information and the links. But let's talk with Mark. Mark's father was a magician and a watchmaker, but he was also interested in being an oil speculator, so he went wherever oil fields were coming up. So before Mark graduated high school, he had attended 23 other schools because the father had moved him to Florida and to San Francisco, and just everywhere you could think about. And in San Francisco, Mark, who was always interested in art, because, again, you're moving constantly, so you can't really build up long friendships or things like, you know, as a kid, he turned to his art in San Francisco. He would go to the zoo each morning before it opened up, and the zookeepers would let him come in and draw the animals. And he would try to draw the animals in motion, not because he was thinking in terms of animation, but he was thinking that an animal in motion that really expresses what this animal really is, how an animal moves, whatever. Here's the gag.

Jim Korkis [00:11:02]:
While he was up there in San Francisco, he wrote and applied at the Disney studios to be an animator, because it was the depression, and Disney was one of the few places hiring. And he made the mistake of signing his requests with his portfolio as M. Frazier Davis. Frasier was his middle name. That was his mother's maiden name, M. Frazier Davis. And the people of the Disney studio, George Drake, thought that this was a woman. So wrote back a letter and said, miss Davis, because it's M.

Jim Korkis [00:11:44]:
Frazier Davis. M stands for Miss. Right. Miss Davis. At this time, we're not hiring women. However, if we do, we will contact you. And Mark got so angry, he threw it away and didn't apply again for another two, three years when moved down to Los Angeles. And he applied.

Jim Korkis [00:12:09]:
And of course, he has these magnificent animal drawings, orangutans, lions. And so he's thinking, this is what I can bring to the Disney studio, is my understanding of. And he had gone to the library and studied animal anatomy and things like that. This is what I can bring to the Disney studios. And he said, what was ironic is they took a look at the portfolio, and they were so impressed with the animal drawings that they hired me immediately and then assigned me as the assistant to grim Natwick, to animate Snow White. And so here I've shown them all of these wonderful animal drawings, and they're giving me a human being to animate. And he learned a lot from Natwick there. And again, because of Mark's great background in art, he was one of those few people who could really create.

Jim Korkis [00:13:11]:
Gosh, what do I want to the human figure so that it doesn't look cartoony? Obviously, it's not an exact human figure you're not tracing. You have to do different things. Some exaggerations, some foreshortening, things like this. But he does Snow White, and eventually he gets trapped as being Disney's ladies know. And all of the characters he's being assigned are women because he can do know. So know. He loved women. Actually.

Jim Korkis [00:13:52]:
He was quite a bachelor, quite a man about town. Alice laughed and said, oh, yeah, when I met him, he had quite a harem. And in fact, he would date so many attractive women that Walt used to joke about it. Walt used to joke about in story meetings and all of. So, you know, I take a look at Mark, and I even take a look know some of the early pictures of Mark, and it's not like he's a, you know, or a Jason Bieber or anything like know. He's an average looking guy. He's not a bad looking guy, but he's an average looking guy. So his personality, especially as a young guy, must have been just killer.

Jim Korkis [00:14:42]:
But here he is doing all of these female characters. So he's doing Cinderella, and he didn't love it, right.

Lou Mongello [00:14:49]:
That was not his favorite things to do. I think he was sort of not disappointed, but maybe to a certain degree, he didn't want to continue to be sort of the female character guy. Right. He tried to give away.

Jim Korkis [00:15:03]:
When I interviewed him in 1998, I said, well, you're the man who did all the Disney ladies and all that. And he says, no, let me correct you. He says, I am not the man who did the Disney ladies. I am the man who they gave the Disney ladies to do.

Lou Mongello [00:15:22]:
But it's interesting because I think really all of the female characters that he did, maybe very much so, like his wife, they all had very strong personalities.

Jim Korkis [00:15:34]:
Right.

Lou Mongello [00:15:34]:
And we'll talk about some of the other ones that he did. You know, Maleficent and Cruella Deville and even Cinderella all were very sort of strong.

Jim Korkis [00:15:44]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And a lot of that came from the fact of his real love of women and the fact that he had known so many different types of women, and he could get that. And you bring up Cruella DeVille, and again, Deville Devil, take a look at the design of that from a design standpoint. She's, like, super skinny, really, the example of you can never be too rich or too thin type thing. But that doesn't come across as a threat. So what he does is he costumes her in this huge, voluminous fur coat so that she becomes massive. So now she's obviously a threat.

Jim Korkis [00:16:39]:
And the funny thing is, nobody ever thinks about that. Take a look at that coat. You can't tell what fur that is. It's a fur coat, but you can't tell what animal that. In fact, the back of the coat, it actually has three tails. And the three tails, you can't go. Well, I wonder what animal. Because, again, what he just wanted was to establish that this was a woman that had too much time, too much money.

Jim Korkis [00:17:10]:
And take a look at her hands. Her hands are huge. The same thing with Maleficent. In fact, his budy milt Kahl, who did all the princes, and he hated doing all the princes, but he could do them so well. He kept getting done that, and he kept criticizing Mark and said, look at those hands. But Mark realized that hands were so expressive. So go back and take a look at the drawings of Cruella and Maleficent, and you'll see that their hands are larger proportionately than what they should be for their body. And the inside of Cruella's fur coat is know to, again, indicate the devil, just like he came up with the design for Maleficent.

Jim Korkis [00:17:53]:
So you have, like, those bat wings around her neck and that her cape is almost like flames. And originally he wanted that to be red. But Ivan Earl, who was the art director, felt that purple would go better with the backgrounds that they had. So that's why Maleficent goes with purple. But Mark was telling me with Cruella Deville, the problem he had is he wanted her to move in such a way that people wouldn't like by. By putting her cigarette out and the crumpet and the whole bit wanted her to do movements so that even if people didn't hear her or would want to give her the benefit of the doubt, there was just how she moved, people would not like.

Lou Mongello [00:18:45]:
Well, and it's interesting you say, know, especially comparing her to Maleficent, they're such different characters, right? So even in the drawing, like, Cruella's a very sort of relatively simple character. But unlike Maleficent, Cruella never really kind of monologues, right? She's always interacting with somebody. There's always somebody there. And she has a very kind of explosive personality, and very Maleficent is not much. So she kind of gets up and postulates and gives her speeches and things like that.

Jim Korkis [00:19:21]:
Because Mark said what he wanted to do was he wanted to show how powerful Maleficent was. And it's like when you're a little kid, you're constantly moving around. When you get to be our age, Lou, you move less. You don't wave with your whole hand.

Lou Mongello [00:19:41]:
Listen, I'm italian. Even as we're talking, my hands are flailing around in front of the microphone.

Jim Korkis [00:19:48]:
So Mark said I wanted to have this control so that people were just really worried what's going to happen when she explodes. She's so much in control. It must be building up inside. And of course, when she does explode, she becomes the interesting for the dragon. Jimmy McDonald actually borrowed training films from the US military on flamethrowers to get that sound. And the dragon's teeth, those are the sound of castanets. And by the way, you can read that little bit of information and more in everything I know, I learned from Disney animated feature films by Jim Korkis, Amazon and themeparkpress.com.

Lou Mongello [00:20:38]:
I got a ridicule every time there's.

Jim Korkis [00:20:39]:
A point when we talk about this, look at how analytical Davis was in terms know, handling these things. It's not just, well, I want to draw a scary character so that Cruella Deville's face sometimes looks like a skull. He's analyzing, why is this person moving this way? What can I do to create this dramatic? And that's why these last. And we're talking about the villains. But he did so many heroines, Briar Rose. And you take a look at her dancing and there's just such a level of grace.

Lou Mongello [00:21:22]:
Cinderella, where he got the same thing.

Jim Korkis [00:21:24]:
With Cinderella and Alice. And Alice in know, he doesn't get credit for all of these wonderful characters that he created that have become part of our lives and that the scene.

Lou Mongello [00:21:36]:
In Cinderella, which is where he got started becoming the female character artist authority.

Jim Korkis [00:21:44]:
Right.

Lou Mongello [00:21:44]:
But as she's coming down, the beautiful, you know, sequence where she's coming down, which supposedly was one of Walt's favorite animation sequences, like you really get an understanding of, like you said, that appreciation of the female form and the grace.

Jim Korkis [00:22:02]:
That she, you know, it's interesting Walt used the term favorite. He didn't use the term best. This isn't the best piece of animation ever in a Disney animated film, or even the best piece of animation done by Mark Davis. But it's his favorite piece because it just moves. Now, we've been talking about 101 Dalmatians. That, of course, was Mark's final film as an animator. And one of the reasons for that is Disney was going to shut down animation after 101 Dalmatians came out in 61, 61 because animation was so expensive, it was so time consuming. And Walt saw that with live action films, it took less time.

Jim Korkis [00:22:51]:
And you had the product right then and there. You didn't have to wait three years for this to develop. And of course, Walt's also, especially around 1960, he's very intimately involved with Disneyland because that's when the first three e ticket rides pop up the submarine and Matterhorn and Monorail. And also, he's looking ahead to Florida. So it's like animation. And Mark tried to convince Walt to do another animated film, Shanticleer, which is the story about a rooster who thinks that the sun comes up every morning because he crows every morning. And also there's a Renard the Fox, sort of a Robin hoodish character in there. And a lot of these character designs and ideas then later show up in the animated feature Robin Hood.

Jim Korkis [00:23:50]:
But he and Ken Anderson were pushing Walt to do this, and Walt just wasn't. He didn't think that chickens were going to be, know, why do this?

Lou Mongello [00:24:01]:
Doesn't the story go, that's supposedly a bookkeeper? Like, they had the storyboard, and a.

Jim Korkis [00:24:06]:
Bookkeeper comes in and says, disney Press released a book that had Mark Davis. And again, you can go on to Amazon or a books or whatever, or eBay, and you can find a copy. They released three books. One was a book that featured concept art for the Jabbawaki sequence from Alice that was cut, and the other had artwork by John Lasseter for Mickey and the Emperor's Nightingale. And then the third that they released was the Chanticleer book. And when I met Mark for the last time, which was 98, over at the Disney Institute, I had a copy of that book for him to sign. And he turns to this page where there's Renard the Fox, and he says, do you see what's wrong with this? And I'm looking at it, and I'm going, holy cow. On my best day, with the wind behind me and 20 more years of training, I'd never be able to draw something as good as that.

Jim Korkis [00:25:18]:
And so he just took a pen, and before he signed his name, what he did is he drew in what Disney press had left out, and that was that Rene had this long cigarette holder with a smoking cigarette at the end of it. They had erased it from his concept drawing. And of course, Mark himself was famous for smoking that long cigarette holder for. Yeah. But again, Walt was debating, gee. And then finally Walt decided, hey, I've got all these people. They know what they're doing. They really don't need to have me involved.

Jim Korkis [00:25:58]:
I can just sort of let them. That's when he put woolly Reiterman in charge of those animated films. I'll just let know do that, because I really don't want to fire them. And where else are they going to go? Where else are they going to get this opportunity? But there was that period of time where Walt was seriously considering, because of financial reasons, just not doing any more animation. So he sent Mark over to Disneyland. Again. This is 61 62.

Lou Mongello [00:26:34]:
Wait, before we get to Disneyland, I want to just jump back real quick because I wanted a couple of other animated films that I wanted to mention because I think we would be remiss if we didn't especially sort of going back to the female characters. Obviously, we mentioned in passing, animating a little bit of Alice during the mad tea party sequence. But I think in one of my personal favorite Mark Davis pieces of art, actually, there's two. And just mentioning a couple of them, know, he worked on the win in the Willow sequence for Ichabod and Mr. Toad, which I'm a huge toad, right?

Jim Korkis [00:27:11]:
He did Mr. Toad, but he also did some weasels. He did some stuff.

Lou Mongello [00:27:16]:
Yeah. He did fun and fancy free. He worked on song of the.

Jim Korkis [00:27:23]:
Alice. And both he and Alice told me that that was one of his favorite experience. And I've talked with other animators who've worked on that, which is why that's a whole nother show.

Lou Mongello [00:27:35]:
Who is afraid of Sonic?

Jim Korkis [00:27:36]:
That's why it's such a shame that that animation isn't out there, because Walt really let the animators let loose. And by gosh, Mark just loved. There's a funny story that Alice told me. Alice said that in 76, they did a special re premiere, redeview whatever, of Song of the south in Atlanta. And they invited. Oh, gosh. And I can't think of her name right now. Ruth Warwick and who had played the mother in the film, and they invited Mark and whatever.

Jim Korkis [00:28:27]:
And Ruth Warwick was the first speaker because she was the big name. And she walks up there and the audience is cheering and going crazy because they had seen her on the soap operas as Aunt Phoebe. And she goes up there and she starts talking and Alice says, she takes a look at Mark and Mark starts to shrink in his chair because she is telling all of the stories that he was going to tell. And so by the time she was finished, and then they go, and now Mark Davis. And she said he had to go up there and he just had to add, said. But he talked a lot about how much he really loved basket as not only Uncle Remus, but as the voice of Fox. But, yeah, well, you see, you can get me started on anything here. But basically, yes, Mark Davis did animation in Song of the south and considers it some of the best that he's done.

Lou Mongello [00:29:24]:
Yeah. And the two that I really wanted to mention was the number one for me, is obviously coming from my favorite film is working on Tinkerbell in Peter Pan because I think the process of creating and animating a character that spoke purely through emotion, right. Who had no voice, she had to speak through emotion and motion. Right. It makes me think of the quote. We didn't need dialogue. We had faces. Well, that's what he.

Lou Mongello [00:29:54]:
But that's what he did for that character. And when you see the early photographs of Margaret Kerry doing the live action reference movement and how he was able to translate that into a character who could convey so much via no words. And this is not meant to compare, just sort of analogize. It made me think of Wally the same way Wally was able to convey such emotion through his eyes. But the way he was able to do that with Tinkerbell, and I think that's why she is so many people's favorite character.

Jim Korkis [00:30:34]:
And one of the points that I want to make here is that even though Mark used live action reference and he used it for Cinderella and a couple of others as well, Mary Wicks came in and did some live action reference for Cruella Deville. He didn't trace, he didn't copy. He used that live action reference literally as what it's supposed to be. It's a reference so you can see how the folds of the fabric go and the position of a hand could be. And then Mark built from there. So he really did create Tinkerbell, who. I think you're absolutely right. Such a memorable character.

Jim Korkis [00:31:20]:
And in 1990, when he was working for imagineering, he went over to Tokyo Disneyland and there was a bar over there that was selling a Tinkerbell cocktail. And so Mark loves martinis, apparently made it. I never had a martini that he made, but everybody who did said, oh, my gosh. So he went into the bar and he says, well, what should I have here? And the bartender is going on about this Tinkerbell cocktail and about Tinkerbell and all this. And Mark goes, do you know who I am? I'm Tinkerbell's father. And apparently he had a Tinkerbell cocktail and liked it. And he turned over the coaster and he drew a picture of Tinkerbell and signed it. And they still have it matted and framed at that bar in Tokyo, although it's faded a bit now.

Jim Korkis [00:32:21]:
I saw a recent photo and then just about two weeks later or whatever, in the mail, they got a full color drawing of Tinkerbell signed by Mark Davis, which is matted and framed on the wall. And Mark was adamant in know the publicity guys say that Tinkerbell is based on Marilyn Monroe. That's not true. It's Margaret Carey. And some artists sometimes feel that they get too identified with a particular character, so they try to pull back from that or they get tired of, oh, you're the one who did that. Mark loved Tinkerbell to the end of his days and would still sketch her. So, yeah, I think you're. And my gosh, who doesn't love Tinkerbell? I debate whether Tinkerbell should know those new straight to video Tinkerbell movies where Tinkerbell talks.

Jim Korkis [00:33:25]:
It's like, okay, I can understand. But that original. My gosh, you're right. You could tell exactly what she was thinking. Again, strong poses, great movement, and in.

Lou Mongello [00:33:41]:
Absolute contrast to maybe drawing the human form. I think one of the things that really set him apart and the reason why it was important to tell the story about how as a child, he went to the zoo and was drawing the animals in motion. Look, I think traveling around as he did made him appreciate the human form more because he probably got to interact and meet so many different people and cultures and different type of women along the way. But when he worked on Bambi in 1942, when he worked on flower and the Twitter painted sequence, I mean, the animals looked like animals, right? And I think even Frank and Ollie had said this is what he did. So, well, the deer looked like deer.

Jim Korkis [00:34:25]:
See, now they look like deer, but they aren't deer because they couldn't grab a hold of this because deer are prey animal. P-R-E-Y prey animal. So they'll have eyes on either side of their head so that you have greater peripheral vision. Predators have their eyes in the know. So what Davis did is that even though they were sketching real deer, because they had two at the studio that had been brought down from Maine for them and grew up, and then once they grew up, they just let them loose in Griffith park. But what Davis did is he took sketches of deer because he knew how to draw animals, and then he took photographs of babies, and then he combined the two together. So when you take a look at Bambi's face, yes, Bambi looks like a deer and certainly moves like a deer, especially if you take a look at the legs. But the face is a combination of a deer and a baby.

Jim Korkis [00:35:36]:
So audiences relate because it's not just an animal. There's enough of a human in there that you can get those expressions and all that. And Davis is the one who cracked that you had all these top animators at the studio and they're trying all these different things and they can't get it. Davis comes up with it, and he does this lecture about this in the hall, and Walt's sitting in the back of the room going, that's right. That's exactly.

Lou Mongello [00:36:07]:
To. And I think maybe that's the key to all the things that we're talking about in his animated work, is the emotion that he is able to bring to all those characters.

Jim Korkis [00:36:18]:
And I think that's his first credit on an animated feature film is on Bambi, and the credit is Frasier Davis. So it drives people crazy to this day. It's like, is that brother? You know? And what else did Fraser Davis? By the time it was the next film, it was Mark Davis. But, yeah, that's his first. And the very first animation up there is flower, the skunk getting pixelated there. Right? And Mark said it was a great thrill being in the audience, seeing that and seeing an audience respond to that. And he says, it was just so unusual. Everybody is howling with laughter at flower falling in love.

Jim Korkis [00:37:10]:
And Mark says, I'm sitting in the seat there and tears are rolling down my cheeks because it's tears of joy that. Look at that. I've created something out of just pen and ink that has touched people well.

Lou Mongello [00:37:27]:
And I think as we start to sort of move, like you said, after what happens with after 101 Dalmatian. But you can really say with no reservation that the work that he did in animation alone would qualify him as a Disney legend.

Jim Korkis [00:37:43]:
Oh, yes.

Lou Mongello [00:37:45]:
But obviously the combination. And look, you talk about Walt calling him the Renaissance man. He said, all I have to do is tell him what I want, and he goes and does it. And I think that's why he entrusted him to go over to Disneyland and know, go take a look at mind train through nature's wonderland. But I know that you were going to say Lou, but that wasn't the first thing he actually did for Disneyland, was it? Wasn't it? The chicken of the sea, the mermaid figure.

Jim Korkis [00:38:12]:
Yeah, the mermaid. Mermaid.

Lou Mongello [00:38:18]:
The figurehead.

Jim Korkis [00:38:19]:
The front piece of the pirate ship there. Yeah. The figurehead on the front there. But again, at that time, when Disneyland was opening, it was know, you grab anybody to do know, just to get this open. Mark felt that his real contribution, his real fingerprint on Disneyland wasn't until nature's mind train ride there. And again, some of that was just repositioning figures like, you know, the story about the two foxes, right?

Lou Mongello [00:38:55]:
I don't.

Jim Korkis [00:38:58]:
And again, these are not audio animatronics, because that's controlled by a sound pulse, whatever. These are what are called electromechanicals. Electromechanicals is a mechanical figure that, through electricity, can repeat an know, like the Indian on the rivers of America. And he raises his hand and then lowers his hand, and then he'll raise the hand and lower the hand. And even the crocodiles and the hippos and the jungle cruise, those are electromechanicals because they move forward and back and up and down, that type of thing. So on the train, he saw that there was this fox that was moving its head up and know. And it's a repetitive action. And then minutes later, he sees over on the other side, in the distance, you have a fox that's moving its head back and forth.

Jim Korkis [00:39:52]:
So it was Mark's suggestion is, you put these two foxes next to each other. So one is moving its head up and down. Yes. And the other fox is moving its head back and forth. No. And audiences are just guess seeing this. And you didn't spend any more money. You just repositioned these things because you want to create an illusion of life.

Jim Korkis [00:40:16]:
You want to tell a story quickly. And it was Mark who decided that in the early days on the mine train, the seats faced each know, just like it would on a little minecart, whatever it was. Mark who said, no, like driving a car, you're always looking forward. So you change the benches so they're all facing forward. And that way you can also control what it is. They're, you know, made that huge, uh. Walt said, well, I want you to do some things, because we've all been on the know around Disneyland, and it's a wonderful experience. But sometimes there's nothing to see except landscaping.

Jim Korkis [00:41:00]:
And so Walt wanted little tableaus set know. So it's almost like a sneak preview of what's going to be in each land. And so Mark did up some sketches. One was a couple of cannibals, and they have a pot, a boiling pot. And there's a tourist in the boiling pot, but he's wearing Mickey mouse ears that you could buy in the park. Over in tomorrowland, he has a crashed flying saucer with little green men. And he came up with this other idea of this trapped safari, that they're on this pole, and there's a rhino with the horn going. And Mark said that Walt told him, this is too good on that.

Jim Korkis [00:41:47]:
We got to put this in the attraction. And that opened up so many other elements, like the elephants bathing pool and the gorillas in the camp. Looking through those things, because Mark said, the one thing that I contributed to Disneyland that wasn't there was that a lot of these rides and attractions did not have a sense of humor. And when we think of Disney, we think of know as a key element. And so he says, that's my contribution to Disneyland, is putting know those elements of humor. He did that in the haunted mansion as well, which is a schizophrenic attraction because you've got the one part that's really scary, and that comes from Claude Coates. And his contribution to Disneyland is you're creating that sense of place. That sense of is, you know, characters.

Jim Korkis [00:42:53]:
Let's do the. And, like, country bear Jamboree, which was the last thing that Walt pretty much saw before he passed away, was Walt's sketches of all these bears. And it wasn't just country bears. Mark had drawn marching bands and rock bands and things like this because they hadn't quite figured out what they were going to go with. And then when it opened in Florida, it's like, well, this is the south. This is country. So we'll go with the country know, rather than some of these other things.

Lou Mongello [00:43:30]:
Well, and that's what it is. I mean, when you think of Davis, that is what he brings to all the attractions that he touched. That's the fingerprint that he leaves behind.

Jim Korkis [00:43:39]:
Right.

Lou Mongello [00:43:40]:
So the jungle cruise now is much more humorous. The tiki room now has the talking tiki poles and the artwork on the wall.

Jim Korkis [00:43:52]:
That's interesting. You called it the tiki room. Mark called me on that one time because we all call it the tiki room. Right? And Mark says, no, it's the enchanted tiki room. And I said, yes. Proper nomenclature. No, he says, we wanted to call it the tiki room. And I said, really? And he says, we couldn't.

Jim Korkis [00:44:13]:
And just like you and those people who are listening right now, I've moved up a little further in my seat going, what's it? Apparently, there was a restaurant in Pennsylvania called the Tiki room, so legally they couldn't call it the tiki room because, again, remember, originally it was going to be a stouffer's restaurant, so that's why it became the enchanted tiki.

Lou Mongello [00:44:35]:
Actually, we're both wrong, and Mark is wrong, too. Yes, it's Walt Disney's enchanted tiki room. If we're going to do it, let's do it right.

Jim Korkis [00:44:45]:
And it's Walt Disney's enchanted tiki room. Because originally the attraction was not owned by Disneyland, it was owned by Wall, just like the railroad. And all of. So I always love playing these games with can you top this? Because I always come away from it smarter or feeling smarter.

Lou Mongello [00:45:07]:
Right. We might not be smarter, but as long as you feel it's better to feel smart than to actually be smart. But I think, look, we can spend a lot of time talking about things like pirates in the mansion, especially the mansion itself, because his imprint on the mansion is not limited to the art, it's not limited to the paintings in the stretching room, because very early on, when they were trying to figure out what this mansion was going to know, to a certain degree, they were Ken Anderson and Rowley and Yale, Gracie and Mark Davis were all kind of butting heads in terms of what this was going to be. Was it going to be scary? Was it going to be funny? Was it going to be a walkthrough? Was it going to be a wax museum? And fortunately, a lot of Mark's influence willed know, making it a little bit more humorous than it was.

Jim Korkis [00:46:00]:
Yeah. And no, there's so much that he's done. And he felt that his favorite attraction that got built, because I think I know where you're heading with this discussion. The favorite attraction that got built was America sings. And it just broke his heart when they dismantled that and some of the figures went to splash Mountain and whatever he really put his heart and soul into America sings. And again, he contributed drawings to carousel of progress and all of that. But I think you're heading in a different direction. What's that?

Lou Mongello [00:46:37]:
Am I am? But before we get to talking about pouring your heart and soul and a devastating turn of events for Mark Davis, I think we also have to mention maybe for people that don't recognize, know he didn't just work on Disneyland and Walt Disney World. He worked on the world's fair, too, with his wife.

Jim Korkis [00:46:53]:
Right.

Lou Mongello [00:46:54]:
So it's a small world, great moments. With Mr. Lincoln, you mentioned the carousel, the magic skyway, all had a lot of influence from Mark and costume design from Alice. As you know, I think when we go through small world, you think of Mary Blair, you may think of Alice Davis, you may think of Harry, but maybe you don't.

Jim Korkis [00:47:12]:
Mark Davis is the one who came up with Cousin Orville in the bathtub.

Lou Mongello [00:47:16]:
One of the best. Again, if you take a look at.

Jim Korkis [00:47:18]:
The original concept sketches, you can see how Walt would take a look at that and go, that's hilarious. We've got to include, you know, even.

Lou Mongello [00:47:27]:
Look, he worked and consulted on things like Tokyo, world of motion. Again, you can totally get a lot.

Jim Korkis [00:47:35]:
Of yeah, I know Kimball gets so much credit for that. It's Mark who did the initial groundwork on that. Yeah.

Lou Mongello [00:47:41]:
And you can see it. And listen, of all the extinct attractions, that's one of the ones that I personally miss as well. But I think where we're both going. And when you tell the story of Mark Davis, you have to tell the story about the Mark David attractions that never were. And I think the first one to lead off with is really the one that probably. And look, Alice said it know it broke his heart because of how much was in it. And that was thunder Mesa and the.

Jim Korkis [00:48:13]:
Yeah, the western river, which again, the imagineers called cowboys of the Caribbean because again, it was very similar to pirates of the Caribbean. But they said, we can't build pirates of the Caribbean in Florida. Florida, that's where the pirates were. And their pirates never understood that logic. So we're not going to have pirates out there, but we want something similar. Well, Florida isn't familiar with. The Wild west will have this ride where you're in the water and you're going through these little vignettes. You have these bandits, and of course, they have the bandanas around their faces.

Jim Korkis [00:48:52]:
But then Mark also put bandanas around the horse's face as well. And you go through this town and you see a cowboy on top of the saloon with his horse firing the guns. And you see Native Americans doing a dance and there's a rainstorm and all of that. And so, yeah, the imagineers called it cowboys of the Caribbean because it was the same basic style for that. But again, very expensive to do. There was also going to be a waterflume ride with it and a train ride along the top of the mesa, the whole bit. You've done a whole show on this. So people, you need to go back and listen to lose old shows.

Jim Korkis [00:49:35]:
I'm telling you right there, you need to do that because the material is still good and still works, but there's no money. And so the Disney company says, well, when we open Walt Disney World in 1971, that's just phase one, right? And even Disneyland when it opened in 55, it took five years, 1960, to really become the Disneyland that we know is Disneyland. And so we figure it'll be five years for Walt Disney World. So by 1975, we'll have this incorporated. That's why Space Mountain opens in 75 and all that. This is part of that phase two expansion. But during that period of time, you see guests saying, where's the pirates of the Caribbean? We saw it on Disney's tv show and all of that. And less than 8% of people on the east coast ever went to Disneyland.

Jim Korkis [00:50:31]:
That's one of the reasons to build out on the east coast. And they wanted pirates. And so once you build pirates, it's like, well, building cowboys of the Caribbean is sort of redundant at this, know?

Lou Mongello [00:50:44]:
And it's disappointing when you hear that because it was so much more. Look, Mark Davis, I mean, he spent five me building concept art and models to put this together. And it was something that was.

Jim Korkis [00:51:02]:
Close enough he could taste and look, you.

Lou Mongello [00:51:04]:
Know, Roy Disney and Richard Irvine, they were totally on board with this attraction, which was more than a pirate of the Caribbean, of the west that was going to go inside.

Jim Korkis [00:51:13]:
But then you have Roy dying there in 71, and Richard Irvine as well. He was too sick to even come out for the opening of. And Richard Irvine was the president of wed at that point. And he was too sick to even come out for the opening of Walt Disney World. And he passes away.

Lou Mongello [00:51:31]:
And look, it would have been an incredibly expensive attraction because it's not just, like you said, this single attraction, but this giant village on this, almost a.

Jim Korkis [00:51:42]:
Theme park in itself.

Lou Mongello [00:51:43]:
There was going to be hiking trails, and they talked about maybe like having a pac mule attraction like at Disneyland. And so when I take people to magic kingdom and I take them to the end of frontierland by splash Mountain and Big Thunder, I want them to imagine a flat, green expanse, because none of that was there in 71, because that's where Hoot Gibson, the audio animatronic owl, was on Main street telling you to come back in a couple of years, because that's where Thunder Mesa was going to be.

Jim Korkis [00:52:12]:
And in fact, that owl in that attraction, which is the Walt Disney story, they had the model for Big Thunder and they had lights. And the only reason we know that for sure is when that attraction closed, they boarded up. And instead of moving the model, they boarded it up. And so when they went in to do a rehab, they pulled out the boards and here's this whole model, and it still works.

Lou Mongello [00:52:45]:
And like you said, when pirates got built, that was sort of the first sounding of the death knell, but no great idea ever dies. And when Big Thunder Mountain started construction in 79, I think that was sort of the realization that it wasn't going to be built. And they took a lot of elements from western river, like big thunder. And the boat ride could potentially be considered splash mountain. There was supposed to be raft. So you got Tom Sawyer island on there as mean.

Jim Korkis [00:53:14]:
You know, Mark was not the same.

Lou Mongello [00:53:17]:
And he was really kind of desperate to do anything. He's like, scale it down. I'll scale it back. We'll do whatever we have to do to try and get this giant mesa there. But it never, from what I sort of gathered from Alice, he never really recovered from that because how much he had put into it.

Jim Korkis [00:53:37]:
Yeah. And it's tough when you put in your heart and soul and everybody says how wonderful it is. So it's not like, well, I don't know whether this is going to work. Oh, my gosh. This is going to be the crowning jewel in your crown there. This is going to be your legacy. This is going to be your main. And it's gone.

Jim Korkis [00:54:00]:
But again, that was just one of several ones he did. I know you probably also want to talk about the Enchanted snow Palace. I do.

Lou Mongello [00:54:09]:
But do you remember when at D 23 Expo in 2011, Tony Baxter, who obviously was influenced by and appreciated Mark's work, he did a presentation on western river expedition, and we saw and they sort of recreated.

Jim Korkis [00:54:25]:
I know the jaws just dropped and we need to the archivist, Steven Vagini, who took the concept art and the recorded soundtrack and stitched it together. So you have that. I think that video is even on YouTube. I think Disney even let it out there on that so you can go down. And Steven, what a wonderful job he did, because there's things on both sides of the boat, so he was able to do it. So you could know both sides just as if you were a guest looking on one side and then over to the other and then this and whatever. And I'm thinking, boy, that would work today. And that's something the entire family could ride.

Jim Korkis [00:55:08]:
The entire family could go on it.

Lou Mongello [00:55:10]:
But you hinted to the other attraction I think a lot of people don't know about. Dare I say Jim Corcus? Frozen fever did not begin in 2013. It began to say that it began with Mark Davis and his enchanted snow palace.

Jim Korkis [00:55:28]:
Yeah. Well, again, Disney had purchased the rights and had been working on a film based on the Snow Queen fairy tale for many years. But just like so many different stories, including Little Mermaid, sometimes you don't get the hook immediately, so it percolates for a while and all of that. And one of the things that Mark saw is that out in Walt Disney world, it's pretty darn hot and humid, and people would love to get out of that. So he came up with attraction almost very similar. It's been described as very similar to small world because it'd be the same type of boat and Watertroff set up where you would go into fantasy land and you would see this huge white and blue structure that looked like a glacier. And then as you came closer to it, you saw that there was carvings in it. So it's like towers and windows and doorways and crenelation, the whole bit.

Jim Korkis [00:56:41]:
And you go inside and you board the boat and you're going through the kingdom of the Snow Queen. And so you see dancing polar bears that are pirouetting on ice blocks like ballerinas. There's another room where you've got the frost fairies, which were from Fantasia. And you also see frost giants that are having these huge icicle clubs. So they're very menacing. And then the final room, the big blow off, is you finally get to be in the palace room of the Snow Queen. And she's got this massive sleigh here. She's preparing to tour her land.

Jim Korkis [00:57:27]:
And to speed her along the way, she creates this blizzard, and you're caught in this snowstorm, this cold snowstorm. And then you exit the attraction out into the hot Florida heat and humidity. And the estimated cost for that attraction, $15 million. And the Disney company thought that was too expensive. We're talking 78 now. This is around 1978. This is too expensive. And they want to invest in roller coasters, which you understand.

Lou Mongello [00:58:06]:
Look, I mean, do you understand? Because while it sounds beautiful and relaxing and you can sort of imagine.

Jim Korkis [00:58:12]:
And you would have music from Fantasia, so you'd have this symphonic music. Yes.

Lou Mongello [00:58:17]:
It's not what I think the public was looking for at a time when these mega coasters are starting to get built.

Jim Korkis [00:58:24]:
Right? No, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. And you know how many of these projects are in imagineering's vaults? They're just like, wow.

Lou Mongello [00:58:37]:
And I think this is another one.

Jim Korkis [00:58:39]:
The black hole shooting gallery, which would have been probably very similar to buz Lightyear's Space Ranger spin. And you're right, none of these ideas die. They always get adapted. So it's going to be interesting to me at least, to see that when the new ride opens in Norway, if there's any of these elements. And sometimes they might even do it as an homage to Mark. If you have a polar bear dancing, thorough wedding on an ice block or.

Lou Mongello [00:59:12]:
Something, I would hope so, too. And if you just Google, just Google enchanted Snow palace. Mark Davis, look at the beauty of, I mean, you talk about beautiful artwork, and you can understand why. And I think, Jim, this is why. This is another attraction that he loved and wanted to see built and if you look, there was actually a lithograph that Disney released years ago that Mark had done that had a lot of work that he had done. So you'll see pirates and hitchhiking ghosts and country bears. And in the center, front and center, is that enchanted snow queen. So I think that there was a part of Mark that, like Thunder, Mason, western River.

Lou Mongello [00:59:52]:
He was very sad that never got built because you can see how much love he had put into it.

Jim Korkis [00:59:58]:
Well, and that's what was happening is a lot of these older guys who had worked with Walt, been trained with Walt, they never knew how to do something halfway, never knew how to do something well. Let's compromise and make the track a couple of feet shorter here or something like that. They went all out because that's what Walt taught know, give it the best, you know, do the best you. And because, again, there's that famous story. Mark's up there pitching an attraction to Walt and some of the other people. And, you know, I got two ways to do this. I got a cheap way, and I got a more expensive way. And Walt got up and walked around the table to Mark and put his hand on his shoulder, and he says, mark, we only have to worry about doing it the right way.

Jim Korkis [01:00:52]:
I've got an entire building filled with people with little pencils and wearing glasses, and they worry about the costs. We don't have to worry about that. What we have to worry about is do it right, do it best.

Lou Mongello [01:01:04]:
Well, and I haven't been there to see it myself, but I believe it's there as part of Disneyland's 60th anniversary. Over at the Disney gallery, they have an exhibit that is talking about not just frozen, but these other snow queens. And they have a lot of the Mark Davis artwork on display. So if you get a chance to get out there, I may need to take a research trip out just to verify for myself.

Jim Korkis [01:01:32]:
You can see, well, things are changing all the time on Disney property, and we're in for a lot more changes coming in the next couple of years here. It'll be interesting to see.

Lou Mongello [01:01:44]:
But I love Jim, the fact that they do recognize, they do remember, with the frozen fever, being that it is being able to pull out the Mark Davis artwork. And I think if you go and you can see concept art for frozen side by side with concept art for the snow palace, you'll see a lot of similarities and a lot of influences. Granted, there's no queen riding a white unicorn, but you can see a lot of similarities in the design.

Jim Korkis [01:02:13]:
You know, I wonder too, because you're right, that artwork is so beautiful and so much of it exists. I wonder if Disney could even do an animated short using that artwork as inspiration, because I know John Lasseter must be listening to your show in his hawaiian shirt, eating popcorn. And, oh, we're doing, let's, let's, let's take this Mark Davis artwork and do a little short here. And we'll tie it in with Frozen, too. Well.

Lou Mongello [01:02:46]:
And the nice thing is the imagineers, they don't forget they are romantics, they are nostalgic, and they are respectful. And putting the artwork up there is not the only tribute that you'll find to mark David. There's actually a lot of them specifically throughout Walt Disney World. So obviously, we mentioned his window on me. USA is the big top production company, which you'll find near the arcade, I believe, on the west side of the street. And it says famous since 55. And I believe that Bill justice and Claude Coates. And there's one other name that's on there.

Lou Mongello [01:03:29]:
John de Cur is on there as well.

Jim Korkis [01:03:33]:
John Decur is one of the guys who, because that's a name a lot of people aren't familiar with. And when they google it, they're not going to find. Did a lot of the design work for Main street in Florida and also for hall of. Yeah.

Lou Mongello [01:03:51]:
So again, that's probably the one name that I think you're right. People won't necessarily recognize immediately or if.

Jim Korkis [01:03:57]:
They google, it'll be a little. Speaking of know if you're interested in nine old men, John Cane Maker several years ago wrote a book called nine Old Men and the Art of Animation. So there's an entire chapter devoted to Mark and there an entire chapter devoted to. Okay, here's a trivia thing for your listeners and for you. There were only two photos taken of all of the nine old men. When was the first taken and when was the last taken? Don't you hate that when people put you on? I run into that all the time. Oh, you're supposed to be the Disney expert. What about the first picture was taken in 1958 for the Bob Thomas book, the Art of Animation.

Jim Korkis [01:04:50]:
And that's the first time they're identified as the nine old men to the public. And the last photo of them altogether, because, again, they were old men. They were dying off was in 1972. And canemaker has both of those photos in his book. And I'd also recommend Walt Disney's imagineering legends by Jeff Curdy, who has a chapter on each of the imagineers and he has a chapter of Mark Davis in there, too.

Lou Mongello [01:05:17]:
Nice. Yeah.

Jim Korkis [01:05:18]:
And that's your lesson. You don't just listen to lose thing for entertainment. Know you've got homework to do. So do that.

Lou Mongello [01:05:27]:
A couple other references I want people to seek out or recognize. Obviously, we all know about the tombstones in the haunted mansion. When you see the one for our patriarch, dear departed grandpa Mark. That's Mark Davis. When you go to Pirates of the Caribbean, you really need to look for this one, but look for the family crest that says marco de Viso hanging on the wall on the left hand side. That's a tough treasure room.

Jim Korkis [01:05:54]:
Good for you, boy. You do your homework, right? That's one of the reasons I love listening to Lumonjello's podcast. And also make sure you buy his cds. He's just got tomorrowland out there now. You should get that finally.

Lou Mongello [01:06:10]:
But I'm a total nerd, right? Because people that when I go to the parks with and they see the sad look on my face, and I'm like, oh, man, they took it away. They're thinking, I'm talking about an attraction, but normally it's like some obscure crate. There used to be a crate, and either it's been moved somewhere or I can't find it near the country bear Jambri. That said, davis Tobacco, and I cannot find that at all. And obviously, he was a smoker that you said. But I think Jim, too, you can also kind of turn it around. Don't just look for the tributes to Mark Davis in the parks. I think you should look for the Mark Davis influence on the films he didn't necessarily work on, but influenced.

Jim Korkis [01:06:50]:
Right.

Lou Mongello [01:06:51]:
Because Pirates of the Caribbean has a Mark Davis influence. The jungle Cruise movie, hoping that when it comes out, is going to have or make that other second mansion movie will have that influence. And I think even frozen, like we said, to a certain degree, when you watch up next time, I want you to look at Carl and Ellie and think about Mark and Alice.

Jim Korkis [01:07:12]:
There you go. And speaking of the influence on films that were made after. Yes, the pirates films. One of the things that Mark did for Pirates of the Caribbean is he did all of those black and white sketches and then with watercolor. And Walt loved them so much that he came out with a Pirates of the Caribbean book with some of Mark's artwork and a series of postcards. But if you take a look at some of those scenes, those don't exist in the attraction, but they later ended up in the Pirates movie and some of the sequels. So obviously, somebody was doing their research and took a look the folders and the morgue and go, wow, this is a great scene. You've got this skeleton floating in a rowboat and this around it.

Jim Korkis [01:08:06]:
So they use that. So, yeah, he has this huge impact, this huge legacy. And that's why I'm grateful that you're taking time to spotlight him, because, as I said, he's been gone for 15 years now and been forgotten by a lot of people other than, gee, that name sort of looks familiar. I should know what that means, but I don't.

Lou Mongello [01:08:31]:
Well, and listen, I appreciate you and your stories and the fact that you're such a wonderful storyteller. And I think that we share a similar type of passion for not just the work and the place, but really the people behind, so need you, the listener, to. I'll actually link to it on the website. If you love Jim Corkis and really, come on, who doesn't? You need to read all of the vaults of Walt. I mean, Jim, you've published how many books now?

Jim Korkis [01:09:04]:
As I said, the fourth volume just came out two weeks ago. Vault of Walt, volume four. It's got a nice purple cover. So you can say, oh, yes, I don't have that edition. And for those of you who love going to visit Los Angeles, in the waltz section, I list the addresses and background information on all of the homes, all of his studios, places where he used to go eat. Not just the Tamil Shanter and Brown Derby, but places like Patty's, which you may never have heard of before, but is a very popular hangout for Hollywood people. So you can create your own little tour that way.

Lou Mongello [01:09:45]:
Nice little stalker chapter.

Jim Korkis [01:09:49]:
Know. But Lou will put the links in there. So absolutely, you can go to that. And again, make sure you buy Lou's books and his cds and listen to, what do you have now? You have Twitter, you have Facebook, you have what is on media that hasn't even been invented yet. So follow Lumangello. And he's going to be on cruises and all of that stuff. This is the busiest guy in Disney fandom.

Lou Mongello [01:10:21]:
Thank you so much, brother.


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