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WDW Radio # 776 – Top Disney Heroines – From the WDW Radio Archives

As we continue to celebrate “Women’s History Month” and the remarkable women who have shaped our world, this episode from the Archives was from show # 582 in 2020, and explores some the incredible women of Disney history. We share our Top Ten Disney Heroines from the worlds of Disney, Marvel, and Star Wars who are not just groundbreaking female leads, but global cultural icons, inspiring role models, and true heroes, and we’ll examine the qualities and characteristics each posses that make them so important and influential.

Summary

Join us on a very special WDW Radio podcast episode #776 as we honor Women’s History Month with a captivating journey through the world of Disney’s bravest heroines and the vital roles they play both on-screen and off. Host Lou Mongello, together with Marion Mongello and Tim Foster, dive deep into the heart of Disney storytelling, where female characters are not just princesses but pioneers of strength, resilience, and inspiration.

In this engaging discussion, we shine a spotlight on the remarkable Tiana from “The Princess and the Frog,” Princess Leia’s empowering presence in “Star Wars,” and the lively Vanellope von Schweetz’s journey of resilience in “Wreck-It Ralph.” Our hosts dissect these characters’ importance in changing the narrative around female roles in movies, appealing to fans of Disney, Marvel, and beyond.

But it doesn’t stop there! Tim Foster brings to the table a passionate discourse on the impact and challenges faced by characters such as Rey from “Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” and the Marvel Cinematic Universe’s complex sisters, Gamora and Nebula. Marion Mongello brings a fresh perspective, articulating her connection to these characters and the broader implications of their roles in the contemporary cinematic landscape.

Our episode also delves into the lesser-known realms of heroism, discussing Shuri’s brilliant intellect in the MCU and the heartwarming significance of Aunt May in the “Spider-Man” series. Listen in for a unique twist as Lou Mongello shares a “what if” comic story about Aunt May’s leap into super-heroism!

But that’s not all—WDW Radio #776 isn’t simply a conversation; it’s an acknowledgment of the real women who have shaped Disney’s history, from Lillian Disney to Mary Blair and beyond. We explore the evolving role of women in the industry and how characters like Black Widow and Captain Marvel challenge societal norms while fostering progress and inclusivity.

Whether it’s thrilling trivia, a deep dive into character arcs, or exploring the digital transformation of Celebrations magazine, this episode has something for every Disney enthusiast looking to be both enlightened and entertained.

So, if you’re fascinated by heroines like Moana, who venture beyond the horizon for the greater good, or if you find kinship with the stirring tales of Eve from “Wall-E” and Helen Parr from “The Incredibles,” WDW Radio #776 invites you to join our celebration of the heroines who have left (and continue to leave) an indelible mark on our hearts and in history.

Don’t miss out on this riveting conversation—subscribe, listen, and discover the magical moments that make these female characters beloved icons and sources of empowerment for all ages. Discover the magic of Disney’s heroines with us on WDW Radio!

Takeaways

  • Female Heroines in Film: The episode discusses the portrayal of female heroines in movies, particularly those within Disney and the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU).
  • In-Depth Character Analysis: Detailed insights are provided into various characters:
  • Tiana from “The Princess and the Frog” is recognized as an entrepreneur and determined character.
  • Princess Leia and Rey from “Star Wars” are noted for their strong, independent qualities, with a mention of backlash against Rey’s character.
  • Vanellope von Schweetz from “Wreck-It Ralph” is admired for her resilience and kindness.
  • Gamora and Nebula’s complex sisterly relationship in the MCU is explored.
  • Shuri from “Black Panther” is praised for her intelligence, humor, and role as a heroine without superpowers.
  • Aunt May is highlighted as a grounding influence for Peter Parker/Spider-Man and her various portrayals.
  • Digital Transition: Celebrations magazine is becoming fully digital, promising more content and interactive experiences.
  • Free Offering: Little Timmy Foster’s digital version of “Remembering Illuminations” is being offered for free to spread Disney magic.
  • Guest Engagements: Marion Mongello has a Redbubble store and Instagram account, while the hosts can be found on celebrationspress.com, engaging in amusing banter.
  • Insightful Discussions: The hosts and guests debate the impact of women in Disney’s history, both real and fictional, and the progress of female representation in media.
  • Tribute to Real-life Disney Heroines: Lillian Disney is esteemed as an important figure behind Walt Disney, and the show pays homage to women like Mary Blair who contributed significantly to Disney’s legacy.
  • Diverse Perspectives: The guests share varied opinions on characters such as Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Helen Parr, and Moana, providing a broad perspective on heroines’ roles and significance.
  • Heroines Without Love Interests: The discussion notes several Disney heroines, like Moana and characters from “Frozen,” who are characterized by motivations other than romantic interests, emphasizing their independence and personal growth.
  • Eve from ‘WALL-E’ is recognized for her character development and her powerful role in the storytelling of the film.
  • Appreciation of Progress in Storytelling: The hosts express satisfaction with Disney’s modern depiction of strong, self-reliant female characters, looking at how storytelling has evolved to be more inclusive and inspirational to all genders.

Timestamps

  • [00:00] Women’s History Month celebrates women’s contributions.
  • [07:08] Discussing female character influence on young people.
  • [12:07] Women taking prominent roles – a positive trend.
  • [18:28] Tiana embodies entrepreneurship with hard work and determination.
  • [25:54] Backlash against Rey, labeled as Mary Sue.
  • [32:03] Both iconic, strong female characters in history.
  • [32:57] Referring to modern Disney characters, not just princesses.
  • [38:35] I love Vanellope, she’s admirable and influential.
  • [44:45] Transformation from villain to sacrificing hero unfolds.
  • [52:27] Character transformation and empowerment in a film.
  • [54:50] Black Widow overcomes her past, sacrifices herself.
  • [01:01:18] Shuri is a smart, talented, and edgy character.
  • [01:10:07] Love for Captain Marvel’s resilience and strength.
  • [01:14:23] Captain Marvel film praised for milestones, lacks personality.
  • [01:19:30] Many still struggle with female heroines.
  • [01:25:26] Relatable mom moment from The Incredibles.
  • [01:29:20] Moana is not your typical Disney princess.
  • [01:34:16] Eve’s character arc was unique and heroic.
  • [01:42:32] Diane described Walt as a loving father.
  • [01:44:08] Marion was private, loving, and supportive.
  • [01:51:32] Disney princesses challenge gender stereotypes, evolving progressively.
  • [01:59:01] Free digital book giveaway, Disney magic link.
  • [02:00:29] Love and admiration expressed through song lyrics.

Who is your favorite female Disney heroine… and why?

Share your thoughts in the WDW Radio Clubhouse at WDWRadio.com/Clubhouse, or call the voicemail at 407-900-9391 (WDW1) and share your story on the show.


Episode Transcript

Click Here To Read The Full Podcast Episode Transcript

Lou Mongello [00:00:07]:
Hello, my friend, and welcome to another episode from the WW radio archives. I am Lou Mangello, and this is show number 776. And each week, I'm going to share an evergreen episode from the archives that maybe you haven't heard before, or one that you haven't heard in a long time. And this week, as we continue to celebrate Women's History Month and the remarkable women that have helped shape our world, this episode from the archives is from show number 582 back in 2020, and we explore some of the incredible women of Disney history. We share our top ten Disney heroines from the worlds of Disney, Marvel, and Star wars, who aren't just groundbreaking female leads, but I think really global cultural icons, inspiring role models, and true heroes. And then we're going to examine the qualities and characteristics that each possess that make them so important and influential. And of course, I want to hear from you. Who is your favorite female Disney heroine and why? I invite you to please share your thoughts in the wWDO clubhouse@wwradio.com.

Lou Mongello [00:01:11]:
Clubhouse or call the Voicemail share your answer. I'll play it on the air at four oh 7909 three nine one. That's four oh 7900 WW one, and you can share yours on the show. Also, don't forget to sign up for my free weekly email update and get a free copy of my 102 things to do at least once in Walt Disney World, including 40 free things to see, do and eat. Plus, you'll also get weekly updates about Disney news, special content updates, events live broadcasts, exclusive content, and much more. Connect with me on social I am at Lou Mongello, and don't forget to join me this and every Wednesday for WW Radio live at 07:30 p.m.. Eastern. But for now, sit back, relax, and enjoy this week's episode from the archives on the WW radio show.

Lou Mongello [00:02:30]:
Beginning in the late 1980s, March has been designated as Women's History Month in the United States, celebrating the contributions women have made to the US and recognizing the specific achievements women have made over the course of american history in a variety of fields and many organizations, including the Library at Congress, the National Archives and Records Administration, National Endowment for the Humanities, National Gallery of Art National Park Service, the Smithsonian, the Holocaust Memorial Museum, all join in together in commemorating and encouraging the study, observance, and celebration of the vital role of women in american history. And while sometimes I half jokingly say that I really don't like special days or months or even holidays that call special attention to recognizing feelings and events, et cetera, simply because I think they should be remembered and appreciated and celebrated always. Like, you shouldn't need a single Thanksgiving day to be thankful or mother's Day to show our appreciation for our mom. So that's what I mean by that. But in honor of this month and the countless women throughout history who have shaped not just our nation, but our planet, our lives, our youth history, I started to think about some of the many women in Disney history who are heroes and heroines in their own right. Because in its nearly 100 years of storytelling, Disney has featured movies and television shows and even attractions with groundbreaking female leads which create literal global icons and more importantly, I think, inspiring role models for children and adults alike, both girls and women as well as men. And I think Disney helped to shape and redefine the role of women in cinema, proving that not only can they be more than secondary leads or damsel in distressed characters that many were portrayed of in early fictional tales, Disney hasn't just pushed the envelope, but I think really has paved the way for storytellers that follow. So whether they be princesses or rabbits or lions or galactic heroes, or literally the girl next door, they all possess and demonstrate these qualities of bravery and charity, selflessness, courage, and so much more.

Lou Mongello [00:05:01]:
And they make us laugh. They make us cry, because, yes, I'm a crier. They make us stand up and fight or just strive to be better. And they aren't just on screen characters and dolls and costumes or plush toys. I think they really are cultural icons. And while there are many, this week we're going to look at our top ten ish Disney heroines because these are the true influencers of our generation and the ones to come. And when you hear top ten, you know that one of my favorite personal characters in air quotes is Tim Foster from Celebrations magazine.

Tim Foster [00:05:40]:
Hey, buddy.

Lou Mongello [00:05:41]:
It's good to see you.

Tim Foster [00:05:43]:
It's great to see you too. You look very nice today.

Lou Mongello [00:05:47]:
Thank you.

Tim Foster [00:05:47]:
Thanks for having me. I'm told we have a special surprise in store today.

Lou Mongello [00:05:54]:
We do. Because, look, you can't have a show about influential Disney heroines without a heroine of our own. And I admittedly, I cannot speak to how a strong female character might impact me the same way. It might impact another female. And I thought really long and hard about who else to invite to be part of this conversation. And there really was only one person at the top of my list. She's not only my personal hero, but she inspires me. She loves Disney.

Lou Mongello [00:06:30]:
She grew up with Disney and her fair share of princesses and female heroines. But I also think she's also at just the right age, I think, to speak to how these characters both impacted her as a child and more importantly, what it means now as she's growing, God help me, into an amazing woman and a personal superhero of mine. She is my daughter. Marion Rosemongelo. Hi.

Marion Mongello [00:06:57]:
I don't know about you, role model.

Lou Mongello [00:07:00]:
You are. You inspire me, and I'm going to save my mushy, gushy tears.

Marion Mongello [00:07:06]:
There will be no mushy.

Lou Mongello [00:07:08]:
There's going to be so much. Marion. Listen, in case you haven't seen, I'm a crier, but I did. I wanted you to be part of this conversation because I think you are sort of the perfect person to talk about it, because you're at this very interesting, formative time in your life where you still have these memories and still sometimes cling to that childlike love of the princesses. And I also think that you probably look at characters in movies and in stories and even on TV a little bit differently in terms of how they might influence you or how they might be role models. Do you find that when you consume content and you watch even Disney movies, for example, now that the female characters or female heroes, whether it be not to jump on anybody's list, whether it's a Captain Marvel or it's a dory, the fact that they're a female character, do you sort of take anything from their portrayal or performance?

Marion Mongello [00:08:13]:
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So when I would watch Disney movies in theater or even now at home, I definitely identify with some of the characters and the heroines, and I try to live up to even a fraction of what they were in the film.

Tim Foster [00:08:30]:
Yeah.

Lou Mongello [00:08:30]:
And like I said, I think, Tim, the reason why I wanted to bring Marion on is because you and I can't speak to that. We probably don't look at characters. Not that I sort of identify or I look at a male versus female character any differently, but I think in terms of influence, I think we might probably have a different perspective than she or another listener might as well.

Tim Foster [00:08:55]:
Well, it is interesting, because if you asked me that same question, which you didn't, but I'm going to.

Lou Mongello [00:09:02]:
That's what I'm doing right now, I.

Tim Foster [00:09:06]:
Am one of those who I've always been a huge fan is not the right word, but a big proponent when there is a female lead hero character that's not secondary to the hero and doesn't need the prince to save them and all that, I've always applauded that for as long as I can remember, and that's just been getting more and more prominent in recent years. And I'm just so thrilled to see that going on and continuing in the whole movement and people talking about it. And not just the characters getting recognition, but the actresses getting recognition, directors, writers, whatever their roles are. And I might delve into a little bit of Disney history with that, but, yeah, obviously, I'm coming from the guy perspective of this, but I've been a huge fan of all the recent developments and so forth.

Lou Mongello [00:10:14]:
Yeah. And I think we'll end up touching on it again, I don't want to sort of mention anybody specifically, but even.

Tim Foster [00:10:19]:
Yeah, you took three of mine already.

Lou Mongello [00:10:22]:
But look, even. Because when I say Disney heroines, I mean characters in the Disney universe, which means Disney and Star wars and Marvel, and look, even that iconic scene at the end of Avengers Endgame, when there's that group shot of these incredibly strong, powerful women coming together. Like, everybody was moved. Men, women, boys, girls, cats, dogs, everybody sort of loved that snapshot scene. But. So I want to ask the two of you again, I believe in ladies first. When I say heroin, what does that mean to you, Marion? Like, when you hear heroin, what does that mean? How do you sort of define that? Not the Merriam Webster definition, but the Marion Mungello definition.

Marion Mongello [00:11:13]:
Well, that's good to me. I feel like it can mean a bunch of things. It could mean, obviously, standing up for you, believe in being hardworking, sacrificing something that you love. Yeah. But I think just down to it. It's whatever it needs to be for you. So whatever you yourself need to see in someone to identify with them and look up to them, to get to your dreams or passions or whatever, I think it's definitely a self defined, if that's the right word, sort of thing.

Lou Mongello [00:11:52]:
Right. It's a very subjective definition. Each person is going to define heroin a little bit differently. So, Tim, for you, I want to ask you the same question. When I say heroin, what appears in your mind's eye?

Tim Foster [00:12:07]:
Well, actually, the word heroin is actually, I prefer to think of it as you see women in prominent roles in films and stories. Now that. How do I say this? It's not about that. This is a woman in a prominent role. Wow, look at that. How the idea that I embrace and I think is great is that we're getting to the point where you can have women in these roles again, whether they're starring roles or part of the creative process or whatever, to the point where the fact that they are women, in this case, since we're talking about women's appreciation month or whether it's race or sexual orientation or whatever it is, that's not even a part of the equation anymore. Yes, this lead character is a female, and in years past, we might have gone and you might have been on either side, like, oh, that can't be. Or, yes, yay.

Tim Foster [00:13:16]:
But the fact that today you can more and more watch a movie and they're just who they are. This isn't man, woman, child, black, whatever it is, that we can erase that, so to speak, but at the same time, still honor respected.

Lou Mongello [00:13:36]:
Right. I think I know what you mean.

Tim Foster [00:13:39]:
Not to diminish, not to ignore it, but to not look at it as an unusual, oh, wow, this is a pretty cool. Who thought of that? This is absolutely perfectly acceptable, normal, whatever word you want to use. That's what I like now that there's so much that you see and it doesn't strike you as. Or it shouldn't strike you as, wow, that's a daring leap or anything like that.

Lou Mongello [00:14:06]:
Right? It's not. Oh, I like it because it's a strong female character. It's a strong character who's a female and not sort of thinking it and sort of making a division in terms of who they are. I think I'm trying to interpret what you're saying. I think I understand, because then again.

Tim Foster [00:14:25]:
I do appreciate that the leads are female like that. There's a Captain Marvel. Well, I won't steal anybody. I guess society wise, we're still working towards that. I think we're a long way there and doing a great job, everybody. But it's still a thing to be dealt with. And actually with some of the characters I'm going to talk to, I'm going to get up on my soapbox and address some issues people have with them and question them. There you go.

Lou Mongello [00:15:00]:
Yeah. And I think this is going to make for a very interesting discussion, too, about who is on your list. You, our friend, the listener, who's at this table with us, because again, I think this is going to be a very interesting discussion of our list. For me, there is nobody on my list who was searching through the entire plot for the one. Right. For that one man to rescue her. I still believe in chivalry, like in holding the door for a woman, like ladies first, pulling out a chair, bringing flowers. And if I had a cape, I would take off my cape and put it over a puddle so you could walk through.

Lou Mongello [00:15:45]:
Like, none of those things diminish my respect for a woman or what she can do. But in fact, it's just the opposite. It demonstrates my respect and my admiration and appreciation for her. So when I say that you treat someone like a lady, that simply means being respectful and a gentleman and complimentary and helpful and caring and listening and, yes, even bringing flowers or candy or just a little gift, just because. So I want to know who was on your list and why. Timmy Foster, I would normally let you go first, but I still believe. Look, my dad raised me right. Chivalry is not dead, and I still believe in ladies first.

Lou Mongello [00:16:31]:
So, Marion Mangello, we have not talked about this at all. I said to come up with a list of your top Disney heroines and why. So in whatever order you feel compelled to share, please.

Tim Foster [00:16:46]:
And by the way, Lou and I have meticulously worked out our list to the end.

Marion Mongello [00:16:51]:
I've been thinking about this so much, I was kind of nervous. Yeah. So my whys are very brief because I want to get into it a little bit later. And I think we're going to share a lot of these in common because these are just staple female roles that I feel like were so important. These are in no particular order. I have Tiana because she was definitely the first princess, and the Frog was the first movie I ever saw in theaters. So it was very easy for me to sort of identify with her and her hardworking tendencies and her wanting to always push boundaries and never stop working, because I'm definitely like that. Sometimes my dad would say stummer, but I am determined.

Lou Mongello [00:17:40]:
You are very determined. Yes. We'll say determined.

Marion Mongello [00:17:43]:
Think of it as perseverance and determination. And I think it's so important for a female figure.

Tim Foster [00:17:52]:
We're going to talk about. There's a top ten etiquette here.

Lou Mongello [00:17:54]:
Yeah. So we're going to talk about them collectively. So you're going to go first and talk about yours, and then we'll have a discussion about it. Because I will tell you, Tiana was number one on my list. It was the very first name that I wrote down. But, Tim, go ahead. I'm sure Tiana, was she or was she not on your list?

Tim Foster [00:18:10]:
Was not on my list.

Lou Mongello [00:18:12]:
Who are you? Remember we used to have Tim Foster come on.

Tim Foster [00:18:16]:
And now I'm embarrassed.

Lou Mongello [00:18:20]:
Look, she was the first one only.

Tim Foster [00:18:23]:
Because I'm only allowed to have, well, three and a half now or three and a third or whatever.

Lou Mongello [00:18:28]:
Well, you know, we always have overlap and honorable mentions. But when I thought of female heroine without even hesitation, Tiana was the first one that came to mind, because I think she demonstrates all the requisite qualities. Like, for me as an entrepreneur, Tiana is the poster child for entrepreneurship, right? She knows the value of hard work and she's willing to work hard because that's the only way you should work to fight for and get what she wants, right? Even despite all of the naysayers and the obstacles. Look, entrepreneurs, you think you have it hard. She was turned into a frog and she still. Right. But she never lost that drive, that willingness, that determination, that dream of not just working at a restaurant, but owning her own restaurant. Right? And the falling in love with the prince was not the primary or secondary.

Lou Mongello [00:19:31]:
It was like the tertiary part of the story. It just happened to happen in the movie as well. So I love her determination. Look, and I have a feeling that she may be the. I'm thinking about this out loud. She may be one of the only heroines that she's got a real job, many jobs, right? She's a real person that has real problems and a real job, which I think makes her incredibly relatable. And she's not the one that needs saving. She's the one that saves others.

Lou Mongello [00:20:10]:
Right. She saves the prince and herself from facilier. Like, she saves the other people.

Marion Mongello [00:20:16]:
And her big friendship thing that I feel like people ignore in the movie, her best friend, they ultimately saved each other.

Lou Mongello [00:20:25]:
I've choked up already. I do, and I love. We watched Princess and the frog over and over and over again. I literally remember picking you and Nicholas up from school when we lived in South Florida. And we listened to that soundtrack every single day on the way to 711 to get Slurpee. So it was a difficult time in our life. Like my dad, your grandfather, was sick. So it hits me on a very personal, emotional level.

Lou Mongello [00:21:00]:
Because of you, because of my dad, because of her as a real person, hardworking entrepreneur. I don't even think of her as a princess first. I think of her as this determined, hardworking character that, you're right, she's the one that saves everybody.

Tim Foster [00:21:26]:
Correct.

Lou Mongello [00:21:27]:
How that. Marion, I am aghast that we'll talk about this offline, how she was not on Timmy Foster's list. Wait a minute. But let's see who was Marion. Welcome to my world. Let's see who Tim has on his list first, because chances are it's going to be go with me here into obscura. So, Tim, please have at it.

Tim Foster [00:21:48]:
All right. Remember the Black Cauldron?

Lou Mongello [00:21:51]:
No. Not a lot of people.

Tim Foster [00:21:54]:
See, this is a gang up one. It's bad enough when it's just you, so bear with me now. See, I have another princess, and I did go into this since this was a broad. There was so many people to choose from. I was going to kind of narrow it down to one princess, but I'm going to save my princess for later because I'm just going to get yelled at. So I'm switching gears totally on Marion.

Lou Mongello [00:22:20]:
He's switching gears on the very first one, just so you know.

Tim Foster [00:22:23]:
And I'm cheating on the first one because I'm going to do two. And I think the de facto leader of a rebellion against an evil empire does count as a job. So I think this person did also have a job. So I'm going into the Star wars universe. I'm going to pick on two. Princess Leia is the obvious one to start with. And I think, to me, what she embodied was, and this was so great because this was 1977, let's not forget. See, we talked about, there's so many movies now that have come out, that are coming out, where the women have lead roles in their heroines, and that's becoming commonplace and the norm, which is what it should be.

Tim Foster [00:23:20]:
But back in 1977, remember, this was still way out there. And the traditional princess role at that time, being more in Disney, was the damsel in distress. And I need a strong prince to save me and all of that stuff. And here comes Princess Leia. And right away, she was no nonsense. I know you two guys are here. You guys clearly have no idea what you're doing. From now on, you listen to me.

Tim Foster [00:23:48]:
And she was a character that was not just that placeholder, damsel in distress character. She had personality, she had guts, bravery, everything you would want in a hero type of character. And she very much was that. And she carried that on through all the subsequent movies. Of course, to me, she will always be, well, what's the line? She'll always be royalty to me. But she very much embodied the hero. And again, I think because her role was so long ago, that at that time, it really was groundbreaking and opened up the doors for a lot of heroines to come in the future, in the Star wars universe and others. And because I'm talking about Princess Leia, I do want to talk about Rey.

Lou Mongello [00:24:48]:
See, Tim does this, too. He does one, and he lumps in, like, three other ones as well.

Tim Foster [00:24:53]:
But all right, let's remember your father knocked out five in his opening before we even got to it. This is what I have to do. This is why I have to come out with 27, even though I only need three. But I want to talk about Ray because I am going to get up a little bit on my soapbox, and I'm curious what you guys think about this, because, again, I love Rey as a character for a lot of same reasons you love Princess Leia, that she's strong and brave and has a history of longing and needing. Like, she has a tragic backstory of not knowing where parents are. She needs to find them. She's thrust into this world that she knows nothing about. Despite all that, she's, out of everybody, she exhibits the most bravery, the most fearlessness, the most conviction to what she needs.

Tim Foster [00:25:54]:
But I know at the time, and I don't know if this was. I'm kind of getting your opinion whether you think this is for real or this is for today, there still is a backlash to a female lead character at times, and there was a lot of talk at the time, and even still today, of Rey being what they called, and I'd never heard this term before then, but a Mary sue character, which, for those who don't know what that means, it means a character who comes out of nowhere with these insane abilities that they should by no rights have, and they're already possessive of all the skills and everything necessary. It makes no sense. And I think the original term came from a Star Trek episode, of all things, to be related. And a lot of people labeled her as such because at least in the first film, she had all these force powers and everything that she should by no rights have, she wasn't trained. She had no knowledge of it. Like, how could she be so powerful?

Lou Mongello [00:26:59]:
Because she had her really high midichlorian count, that's what.

Tim Foster [00:27:02]:
There you go. And I bristled at that when I heard it, because to me, it was like, well, nobody was complaining about Luke in Star wars. Same thing. I mean, he had a little bit of training, but the Death Star, in one shot with. He'd never flown an X wing fighter before, but it was kind of the stereotypical. It was fine if it was a guy, but if it was a woman who exhibited these powers and abilities and bravery and independence and everything else, that a lot of people didn't look at that as a good thing. They looked at it as somehow a bad thing, I don't know, and called know, tagged it with this Mary sue character. Captain Marvel got a lot of that same backlash, which, again, I didn't agree with and I still don't agree with.

Tim Foster [00:27:52]:
So to me, Rey is just a very strong, well thought out, great character in the Star wars universe. I admire her and everything else, but I'm curious what you guys think about that whole concept of that heroine character kind of working backwards to people who I think are maybe kind of ignorant in that respect and can't see it, for this is just the way it is now. This isn't the people who think women have their place or whatever it is.

Lou Mongello [00:28:25]:
So, Marion, I'm curious as to your thoughts, because you sort of are a relative. I don't think I saw such a reaction to a film, a Star wars film, as I did the recent rise of Skywalker. Like you came out, you loved it. You asked to see it again, which you hadn't necessarily done on earlier films. Tell us your thoughts on both Leia as well as.

Tim Foster [00:28:52]:
The.

Marion Mongello [00:28:53]:
I'm not saying I'm not a Star wars fan. I'm just not very invested in the universe, I guess. So originally, you know, I hadn't watched the films really a lot.

Tim Foster [00:29:07]:
Wait, what's going on in that household?

Lou Mongello [00:29:09]:
Lou, remember when she was. We're talking about episode one, two, and three, so it's understandable.

Tim Foster [00:29:16]:
All right. Okay. I forget.

Marion Mongello [00:29:19]:
Yeah, no, I haven't watched the original. I don't know how many are, a few. The more recent ones I have watched, and I really enjoyed the most recent one, and I actually really liked Rey in that movie. And I thought that ending moment was so special and spectacular, and I definitely looked up to her, and I think all the girls, at least my age, or even younger or older, could definitely relate, because, I mean, that was a huge. I'm not going to spoil it, because that was a huge thing that happened, and I was so excited and really, really liked it a lot. But with Leia, I never, I guess, got into that time era of movies. So, yeah, from a not super invested fan, I'm definitely more of a ray than a Leia, I guess you could say.

Lou Mongello [00:30:20]:
So I struggled with this with both characters. I struggled with both because my first inclination was to put both of them on my list. And then as I started to add to my list and sort of brain dump, they were getting pushed farther and farther down. Look, I grew up with the original trilogy. I loved the characters, and I loved Leia's. Arc, even from the first three movies, and then obviously bringing her back and her position later on. Rey was interesting to me, and it's interesting sort of how you put that perception of her sort of coming from nothing, having these powers, but that's sort of what Jedis do, right? You're not sort of chosen to be a Jedi. You have those powers and need to be sort of worthy to be trained, which obviously she was.

Lou Mongello [00:31:11]:
I think they both are deserving to be on the list for different reasons. I don't diminish what either of them have done as characters or as heroines in any way, shape or form. And I have a feeling that there's a lot of younger girls who are Star wars fans who probably put Rey very high on their list.

Marion Mongello [00:31:33]:
Yeah, Rey was on my list. She was one of the first that I had on there. I didn't have Leia again because I'm not very invested and she wasn't a big part of the movies that I've seen. But Ray definitely resonated with me, and I feel like, I'm not saying I'm a half fan or I'm just not as invested, and I feel like a lot of the girls my age could definitely agree. Saying that Ray is more relatable, maybe to me, I don't know.

Lou Mongello [00:32:03]:
And I think they're both like. I think they are absolutely iconic if you think about strong female characters from cinematic history. I think they're both in the conversation. And again, it might be a generational type of thing as well. So don't let the fact that they were not on my list, they're sort of mental honorable mentions, but don't let the fact that they did not make my top ten ish list take anything away from who they are as characters. I really tried to think long and hard and deep and even a little bit out of the box in terms of my definition of heroine. And I will tell you that the next one on my list might be. I don't want to say it's a go with me here, Tim, but it might be a shock because I feel.

Tim Foster [00:32:51]:
Like you're going to steal one of mine because I had a few.

Lou Mongello [00:32:54]:
Well, I hope so, right?

Tim Foster [00:32:55]:
Because, look, you hope so?

Lou Mongello [00:32:57]:
Because I think sometimes, let's sort of backpedal for a second. You start thinking Disney heroines, you think Disney princess, you start to think of the classics, and I'm not saying whether they are or not on the list is not, but I also wanted to think in terms of more modern storytelling. And more modern and new characters that have been introduced. And the one that's next on my list was arguably not necessarily. She was not the titular character of the movie, but at one point, she was a princess. Although that's probably not how you perceive her. Right. Because her role, her attitude, her character changes and develops from when we see her as she's introduced to when we see her at the conclusion of the film and in the sequel to follow.

Lou Mongello [00:34:02]:
So I present to you, my friends, one Vanellope von Schweetz.

Tim Foster [00:34:09]:
Come on. Really? Do you have a camera in my room, dude?

Lou Mongello [00:34:13]:
Thankfully, I do not have a camera in your. So. But, Tim, this is the beauty, right? So I'm happy that we're in alignment in this because I was waiting for you guys to be like, what the vanilla?

Tim Foster [00:34:26]:
And I almost went with her first, but before anyone stole my Star Wars, I wanted to get that right.

Lou Mongello [00:34:33]:
So we know her story, right? She was the in game Princess of the Sugar rush world. And then turbo hijacks the game, and he turns himself into King Candy because I just want to do the.

Tim Foster [00:34:47]:
Wow, that was great.

Marion Mongello [00:34:49]:
Thank you. It gets worse the more he does.

Lou Mongello [00:34:52]:
It, but now I'm going to just keep doing it because I love him so very much.

Tim Foster [00:34:57]:
Wait, I got to give you some lines. I want to hear you say them, please.

Lou Mongello [00:35:02]:
But think about her journey, right. Because through no fault of her own, she was tormented. She was ostracized by the other characters and the other racers and taffeta mutton fudge, right. So she had to sort of escape because she was, like, this glitch. She had sort of escape on her own and sort of leave the game and sort of leave the people who were tormenting her. But by the same token, also finds within her this unique ability to not just glitch, but to teleport. Right. She sort of gets this superpower that she eventually gains control over.

Lou Mongello [00:35:49]:
But I love the fact that she is so energetic and there's such a childlike innocence to her. And she savor. I love the way she just sort of savors life and just makes sweet lemonade out of all the lemons that she was given as a result of the bullying. And, look, I think little girls, little boys. Look, I was bullied as a kid, so I get it. I don't care if she's a female male character. That resonated with me. But through all that, she's still able to see the goodness in people because of the relationship and the friendship that she has with Ralph.

Lou Mongello [00:36:39]:
Again, she's demonstrating qualities of forgiveness. Right. She forgives Ralph throughout the movie. She ends up forgiving all the people who were being so mean to her. But the entire time, again, she's demonstrating these characteristics of determination and strong will. And through all the bad stuff is she's such a loving character. Right. She was told all these things that she could not do.

Lou Mongello [00:37:09]:
You can't be a racer. Don't tell me what I can't do. She was told she couldn't race, but she took a chance, and she followed her dream. And when the opportunity came her way, she was able to make the most out of it. And I just love that combination of the sense of humor and the attitude and the determination and look, she didn't want to be known as a princess, and I love that about her, because little girls throughout history, like. Right, not that you were taught, but you always wanted to be a princess. You dressed like a princess. Penelope sort of broke the mold and said, you don't need to be a princess to be a hero, to have success.

Lou Mongello [00:37:59]:
And no matter what situation you start out from or the hand you are dealt, you are able, through hard work and friendship and all those other qualities, to. She became the thing that she always dreamed she could do. And that's why she was a very close number two on my list. Tim. Well, clearly, I waved the Vanellope von Schweet's flag very, very hard.

Tim Foster [00:38:32]:
What?

Lou Mongello [00:38:32]:
I waved the Vanellope von Schweetz flag.

Tim Foster [00:38:35]:
There's not much to know. I love Vanellope to death. She was definitely on my list, I will add. You said it all. You said it all greatly. I think one thing you can add to her, which I think is a great testament to any character or person in real life. So you mentioned all the powers she had and the self realization she had and her fortitude and strength to go through all that. The other thing that she did, which was very remarkable and admirable and great for any character to do, is she not only kept to her own values and determination to get to where she wanted, she had the ability to change another character's point of view totally around, which I think is a great mark for anybody, if you can, in a positive way.

Tim Foster [00:39:31]:
Meaning how she made Ralph realize, first of all, his initial quest to get that medal is pure selfishness. I need to get this to make myself be part of the gang and in here and all that. By the end of the movie, he realized that's not what the true meaning of everything was about. It wasn't about him getting that medal. It was about the friendship, and it was about his relationships with people and how he was as a person on the inside and how he related with people directly, in this case, Vanellope. And she made him see that and realize that it wasn't all about that. And he can be. I can be bad and that's good or whatever the quote.

Tim Foster [00:40:15]:
And I think that she did that among the other things, she did, too. That also makes her a great character and a great heroine because she had that ability to make other people around here change, too, for the better. And I think that's one of the great things about it.

Lou Mongello [00:40:36]:
Feel better about thoughts on von Schweetz.

Marion Mongello [00:40:39]:
Oh, my God.

Lou Mongello [00:40:40]:
King Pendy, stop.

Marion Mongello [00:40:42]:
Please do more. No, you don't understand.

Lou Mongello [00:40:46]:
What if I did the entire rest of the show?

Marion Mongello [00:40:47]:
How about you share? Okay, I'm cutting you off. I'm cutting you off.

Lou Mongello [00:40:51]:
Alan Tudic.

Marion Mongello [00:40:52]:
I love you so to. I remember when the movie came out, we went to the Disney store, and they came out with these little scented, plushy versions of the racers. And I had to have all of them. I had all of them. There were, like, 13. Thank you.

Lou Mongello [00:41:09]:
Do I know where they are now?

Marion Mongello [00:41:10]:
Probably in somebody else's house who's enjoying them much more.

Tim Foster [00:41:13]:
Wait, they're up on the shelf. I can see them behind you.

Marion Mongello [00:41:16]:
All 13? No. Yeah, there were a lot. And I also had the little talking Vanellope and whatever, so I definitely looked up to Vanellope, and I saw myself in her because she was very spunky and she made jokes about people, which I get reprimanded on a lot. But no, she definitely. I feel like you said it very well. Good job. You get complimented once.

Tim Foster [00:41:46]:
Wait, him or me?

Marion Mongello [00:41:48]:
My father.

Tim Foster [00:41:49]:
No, you did great.

Marion Mongello [00:41:53]:
But, yeah, I definitely see know being a super big role model to know young and old, because, again, she did really break the mold, which I find is super important. I mean, Disney is doing that more and more, but it's definitely important to have those non princess figures for girls to look up to.

Lou Mongello [00:42:14]:
Excellent.

Tim Foster [00:42:16]:
You can tell me. Can you get away with calling your dad major body odor? Are you allowed to do that? Because you should. I mean, for the king, I can't even do it. That's payback. You should.

Marion Mongello [00:42:32]:
He does it.

Tim Foster [00:42:33]:
A revoir, admiral underpants.

Marion Mongello [00:42:36]:
Oh, my God. We're done. Okay, can I go to my next one, please?

Tim Foster [00:42:43]:
Wait your turn.

Lou Mongello [00:42:44]:
Please stop the insanity.

Marion Mongello [00:42:46]:
Thank you. Okay, so my next one is Marvel, and she's probably one of my favorites out of don't take her. Don't take her.

Tim Foster [00:42:56]:
Don't take her.

Marion Mongello [00:42:57]:
Oh, no. There are two. I'm going with my personal favorite, but I put Gamora. Yes, because guardians is one of my favorite movies, marvel movies ever. Hysterical, amazing, perfect, whatever. But she definitely started out as a villain, and then she redeemed herself, and then it was all spectacular and amazing. But I just think she's super cool and edgy and spunky and. Yeah, she definitely.

Marion Mongello [00:43:28]:
I'm going to let you say all the fancy words, but yeah, there you go.

Lou Mongello [00:43:31]:
Tim, was she the one that was on your list?

Tim Foster [00:43:34]:
No, that's why I went woohoo. Because it wasn't one of my marvel. Oh, she almost was, though. And it's. So we'll get to this later. Why it was so hard to.

Lou Mongello [00:43:46]:
Yeah, she was one. I had her on. I had her off. I put her in honorable mentions. She was one of the ones that came to mind first, because, again, it's not where you start out from, it's how you end up. You want to talk about somebody that's got daddy issues all of a sudden. All of a sudden, my king candy impression is not the worst thing ever because I'm not trying to snap out half of all life.

Marion Mongello [00:44:13]:
It's still the worst thing ever.

Lou Mongello [00:44:14]:
I'm not so sure, but I've heard worse. Believe. Yeah, wait till Tim starts doing his impressions. But wow. Her love of her sister is unwavering. Right? They fight literally and figuratively. They battle on many different levels. And she never gives up on trying to make her understand that, not even related by blood.

Lou Mongello [00:44:45]:
She loves her as sister should. Right. To fight not just a common enemy, but for the benefit, literally, of the entire universe, her story arc, in terms of, again, going from that villain to a good person. Right. And you can sort of watch it happen. There's these seminal moments in some of the films. As it happens. Again, I think we can eliminate the spoiler alert in terms of what happens to her at the end of the film, in terms of making the ultimate sacrifices when needed, whether they were voluntary or not.

Lou Mongello [00:45:26]:
So, yeah, Gamora almost was on the list. And I have a feeling, guys, that she is very high on the lists of some of the people who are listening. But, Tim, who is next on yours?

Tim Foster [00:45:38]:
Wait, but I thought Marion had another marvel character. Yes, but she can throw in right now. See, I'm afraid, because I'm going Marvel. And now I'm afraid you are going.

Lou Mongello [00:45:49]:
To take one of mine. So, Tim, you go. And if it happens to be Marion's wait.

Tim Foster [00:45:55]:
Well, because I have two, too. Three.

Lou Mongello [00:45:58]:
Well, this is where you have to roll.

Tim Foster [00:46:01]:
Well, no, she. Take one because I got, like, three of them. Four of them on my list.

Marion Mongello [00:46:06]:
I had two.

Lou Mongello [00:46:07]:
Wait, we're going out of order. How are you doing? Two.

Tim Foster [00:46:09]:
It's not your show anymore.

Marion Mongello [00:46:13]:
Thank you.

Lou Mongello [00:46:14]:
Remember when Marion wasn't 16? Wait, but you can't just do the.

Marion Mongello [00:46:20]:
One and not the one that goes with her.

Tim Foster [00:46:23]:
Thank you.

Marion Mongello [00:46:24]:
Period.

Lou Mongello [00:46:25]:
The one that goes with her.

Marion Mongello [00:46:26]:
Nebula, you can't have Gamora. They're a bond that cannot be broken.

Lou Mongello [00:46:32]:
Wow.

Marion Mongello [00:46:33]:
They sacrifice each other's. They tried to sacrifice each other's lives for each other or whatever. But, yeah, Nebula is definitely on my list. And she goes, I think, hand in hand with Gamora. They are. I mean, I think Nebula also had that redeeming moment. She started out real evil, like, really bad, and then she had her redeeming moment, too. So I think she is just as much on my list as Gamora is.

Lou Mongello [00:46:59]:
Wow.

Tim Foster [00:47:00]:
She shot herself for the really, you.

Marion Mongello [00:47:06]:
Know, but she tried.

Tim Foster [00:47:08]:
She was mean.

Lou Mongello [00:47:10]:
She was a very conflicted. There was a lot of conflict going on internally in Nebula.

Marion Mongello [00:47:16]:
There was. But don't we all have some internal.

Lou Mongello [00:47:18]:
Conflicts without a Tim, tell me. So she was on your.

Tim Foster [00:47:28]:
And that was another.

Lou Mongello [00:47:29]:
Woohoo.

Tim Foster [00:47:29]:
I still got all four of mine left on my list to go.

Marion Mongello [00:47:32]:
Don't worry.

Tim Foster [00:47:32]:
Still have.

Lou Mongello [00:47:36]:
You know, I think she certainly. She qualifies again, because her role and character in the MCU may have had one of the wildest story arcs. And while she might not have the same emotional gravitas as Tony or Cap or some of the others, she goes through this transformation from villain to a very sort of complicated. She's not even a of. She's like an anti hero, almost, but it's in a satisfying type of way.

Marion Mongello [00:48:23]:
Out of love for her sister. Sisterly bonds like Anna and Elsa.

Lou Mongello [00:48:28]:
Right. But there was not the inherent conflict between Anna and know Anna was never sort of trying to supplant Elsa's role as the queen. She was instead, incredibly. I don't remember the scene in frozen where they tried killing each other.

Marion Mongello [00:48:52]:
Dark and twisty. Anna and Elsa.

Tim Foster [00:48:55]:
It was the final scene of the first movie.

Lou Mongello [00:48:57]:
I must have slept, wasn't it? Yeah, I must have slept through that. But I think she's like a Bucky Barnes. Right. In terms of their character's transformation. Know one side of the coin to the other and how they get there again. It's a satisfying, albeit bizarre ending to Nebula, which is, I think, the end of Nebula also signifies the rebirth of nebula as a very different character. And to Karen Gillan's credit, playing a singular character two very different ways. I really applaud the performance, which I think comes through and passed the makeup very well.

Tim Foster [00:49:48]:
Yeah, 20 hours of makeup, probably. Yeah, I've seen the time left. What about Mantis?

Marion Mongello [00:49:54]:
No, I love Mantis. She's good, too. Not on my list.

Tim Foster [00:49:59]:
I love that she had. I think she. I swear she had one line in endgame.

Lou Mongello [00:50:04]:
Yeah, a lot of them did. A lot of knives. Yes. Fight with knives.

Tim Foster [00:50:09]:
Like, that was her only line.

Lou Mongello [00:50:10]:
Well, so did. So did wong. You wanted more like, oh, my God.

Marion Mongello [00:50:13]:
Stop with the impressions.

Lou Mongello [00:50:14]:
Oh, just wait.

Marion Mongello [00:50:16]:
You can hear the people clicking off.

Lou Mongello [00:50:18]:
Just wait. Oh, I've got.

Marion Mongello [00:50:20]:
Okay, we'll move on.

Lou Mongello [00:50:21]:
Now, looking at my lists, I got a couple of good ones in the hopper. Don't try and cheat and look at my list. Go ahead, Tim. So who is next on your list?

Tim Foster [00:50:30]:
Well, why don't we make this the marvel round?

Lou Mongello [00:50:33]:
Okay.

Tim Foster [00:50:35]:
Because I had a few, and I kind of wanted to speak to the moment you referred to in your opening, but we'll get that in a little bit. So I actually had on my list, I was torn. Skipping over. This is where I squeezed four into one, was definitely, watch how I do this. This is great. So I skipped over Captain Marvel, I skipped over Valkyrie, and I was torn. Now, I was going to say Scarlet witch, and I'm going to stick with her. And another one.

Tim Foster [00:51:06]:
She's just one of my favorite characters anyway, from the whole MCU for a lot of reasons, but I think in her case, talk about a character arc. She clearly went from not a bad guy, but born from tragedy at the hands of Tony Stark and basically being tasked with an infinity war, like, you have to destroy. You're the only one capable of destroying the Infinity Stone. Translation? That means you have to kill the person, quote, unquote, that you are falling in love with. So you have to make that ultimate. Well, not the ultimate sacrifice that's coming, but make a pretty big sacrifice for the greater good, which you could see tore her apart emotionally, and even going back to Ultron, which to me is one of the most emotional moments in all of the Marvel cinematic universe, maybe with the exception of the end of Endgame. But when she senses that her brother dies and that anguish on her face, that anguish in her that unleashes.

Lou Mongello [00:52:27]:
It'S.

Tim Foster [00:52:27]:
One of those moments where I know it's coming, I know it's going to happen, and I still have to look away because the pain and the anguish and the hurt and everything that just pours out of her at that time. And it's also she trans. This is when you could see her transform from this child born of tragedy and just wanting nothing more than to get revenge and filled with hatred, seeing what the bigger picture and becoming what she was in the end, by the end of the film. And she became the character that we saw in Endgame. And let's not forget, her character arc isn't finished yet because we've got more coming at some point with WandaVision, whatever that's going to be, which looks really bizarre, but I'm in for the long think again. I think her character arc was very powerful. She's obviously very one of the few characters that could go toe to toe with Thanos. And again, I like within that movie that there's plenty of heroines in that film, and they're to the point where it didn't matter whether man, woman, 16 year old kid, whatever it was, these were just heroes in their own right.

Tim Foster [00:53:49]:
And Black Widow was my other one.

Marion Mongello [00:53:52]:
That I was going to have black widow, too.

Tim Foster [00:53:54]:
Yeah, for obvious reasons. But this was hard. And I did think about this one was a hard one to think about, because you talk about a character arc of going from really bad, and this is when I want to pull out my Loki impression, but I won't.

Lou Mongello [00:54:13]:
Oh, please, it's okay, because I just want to know how he hears Loki in his head. Marion, it's fascinating. Oh, please.

Tim Foster [00:54:21]:
You want to hear it? It's great.

Lou Mongello [00:54:22]:
Yeah. Can you.

Tim Foster [00:54:25]:
Can you wipe out that much red? The hospital fire. Dragov's daughter bought and told me everything. You think saving a man no more virtuous than yourself will change all of this? This is sentiment. This is a child. That's enough. That was fantastic.

Lou Mongello [00:54:47]:
Fantastic.

Marion Mongello [00:54:47]:
That was great.

Tim Foster [00:54:50]:
But obviously, in that monologue, you know how horrific her past was, and you see more of it in flashbacks and Ultron and so forth to where she became a heroine. But even then, she questioned. She always questioned whether she deserved to be in that role or she was worthy of being in that role. She knew her past. I remember the scene in Ultron when she told Banner, like, you think you're the only monster on the like? She still, if she had such a horrible past, could she ever shed it? Could she ever get rid of it? And of course, by the time we get to endgame, this would be the ultimate sacrifice I was referring to earlier, where she deliberately made the choice between her and Hawkeye, she would be the one to sacrifice herself to get the soul stone. And I guess, unlike other characters, well, you talked about know, whether by choice or not, or know Gamora had the same thing happen to her, but not by know Thanos throwing her off. But this was black widow sacrificing herself, her life, everything she had, knowing that this is for the greater good. And whether in her mind this was to.

Tim Foster [00:56:21]:
Well, it was for the greater good, but there was, I'm sure, a lot of redemption in her mind, too. And keep in mind, she's choosing between herself and Hawkeye, who had his own reasons for being the one to sacrifice himself the way his character art went, but he had a family and everything else that she thought was more important. But again, whatever her reasons were coming from that past to making that ultimate sacrifice, I think she goes down as a, how do you say this? A heroine. But she's got a past. So you take that along with it. And that's a lot of which, as.

Lou Mongello [00:57:05]:
Long as it doesn't define your future, is okay. Right, right.

Tim Foster [00:57:12]:
But it's clear, I guess it's hard. Like some of the characters talk about had a rough past. This was a rough past, and we're going to find out more about it, probably.

Lou Mongello [00:57:23]:
You and I remember Budapest very differently.

Tim Foster [00:57:26]:
Right. Watching her character arc through the movie is one of the best. Well, that's hard to say because so many characters have great character arcs throughout the Marvel cinematic Universe, but hers was one of the most tragic, I guess, but also put her sacrifice up to a level that you just respect, no matter who it is. And the fact that it was Black Widow. And I'm very sad right now.

Lou Mongello [00:58:00]:
So did either or both of those make your list? Marion?

Marion Mongello [00:58:03]:
Yeah, Black Widow was on my, you know, for know, giant sacrifice, whatever. But, I mean, even in the earlier movies, you definitely saw how she could be a role model. Again, I'm really honing in on the role model thing because I, and so many girls my age, younger, older, definitely look up to characters like Black Widow who show people that you don't have to be a big, strong man to get things done. Big, strong men can do things, too, but you know what I'm saying? They definitely show female power. And, yeah, I think that's very important.

Lou Mongello [00:58:44]:
So scarlet witch was not on my list. She did not make my list. I instinctively put her on, and I took her off. I'm not saying she's not deserving. Look, she probably, more than anybody, for her entire journey, has been the most conflicted character of all. And she went on my list initially simply because of self sacrifice, right? So she sacrificed her childhood, whether it know, and we'll see when black Widow comes out that story. Not to spoil it for anybody who hasn't read the comics and how it may differ from that, but she sacrificed her childhood and growing up, which was not sort of the typical life of a child, and she sacrificed her relationships, right? Like, clearly, her relationship with Bruce Banner by choice and not by choice, had to dramatically change. There may or may not have been some sort of love interest with Captain America, which she may have had to push those feelings aside.

Lou Mongello [00:59:57]:
And obviously, again, the ultimate sacrifice was made. But she didn't make my list. Now, Scarlet Witch did. And for some reason, Wanda Maximoff was the first one that I put on. She's a character that goes back to 1964. She was a Stan Lee and Jack Kirby original way back when. And I don't want to go too far into it, but she, too, had that villain to one of, if not arguably, the strongest. I'd like to see her and Captain Marvel sort of go at it, but one of the strongest of the heroes.

Lou Mongello [01:00:39]:
Not female heroes, just one of the strongest heroes, period. You saw that in Infinity War and in Endgame, right? With being able to destroy the Infinity Stone literally and figuratively, single handedly. And then what she did with Thanos in Endgame. And I think that she's still just on the cusp of discovering her powers. And I think what makes her strong is not just her physical strength, but her mental fortitude as well. Although her accent changed wildly from movie to movie.

Tim Foster [01:01:13]:
However, that's because she was undercover, the.

Lou Mongello [01:01:18]:
One that didn't make my list. I'm not saying, like, it was number one or number two, was I put Shuri on my list. I almost put Shuri on my right. Look, geek nerd is the new black, right? It's cool all of a sudden to be nerd. So if you are a young or old, like, nerdy person, nerdy girl like Shuri is your cover girl, right? Because she is. But she's arguably, if not without question, potentially the smartest of all of the characters, right? She's responsible for so much of the advanced technology, not just for T'Challa and Black Panther, but all of Wakanda. She's a fantastic fighter. She's skilled, she's funny, she's edgy, she's smart, right? Look, she was the one who was responsible for deprogramming winter soldier, right? She got all of the Hydra stuff out of Bucky Barnes.

Lou Mongello [01:02:19]:
And who knows what she was doing or ended up doing with vision. So I like Shuri a lot. There was something about her that I sort of dug. And again, it goes to family. Know her love. Know she's a lot like Mary. And she could be a little edgy, but when her mom tells her to cool it, she's like, yes, mother, but her love for her brother and that emotion that comes out in Black Panther, you really saw. Now that.

Tim Foster [01:02:51]:
Hold on. First of all, cheap shot there, Marion. I'm sorry.

Lou Mongello [01:02:56]:
Cheap shot to.

Marion Mongello [01:02:56]:
Yeah, you just told me I'm. Yes, Mother.

Lou Mongello [01:03:00]:
Right. You're very smart, like Shuri. Your sharp tongue. Sometimes she's giving me the do without knowing it.

Tim Foster [01:03:09]:
I apologize. This corset is very tight. Can we get the move on and wrap this?

Lou Mongello [01:03:17]:
My, that was a sure impression, Mary. And all of a sudden, King Candy sounds wonderful.

Marion Mongello [01:03:22]:
I don't like either of them. What I don't like either.

Lou Mongello [01:03:27]:
So I am going to give you what I believe is, for me, personally, this is not a go with me here. This, to me, is one of the greatest heroines in the Marvel cinematic universe and the marvel universe as a whole, right? Because it transcends just what you see on film and in the MCU films. Because she's been in other films, she's been in countless iterations of the comic books, but she is a heroine, and she has no superpowers.

Tim Foster [01:04:10]:
I'm really stumped who you're talking about.

Marion Mongello [01:04:12]:
Yeah. I don't know who you're talking.

Lou Mongello [01:04:13]:
Good.

Marion Mongello [01:04:13]:
I'm trying to look around your room at all of your.

Lou Mongello [01:04:15]:
Because. Because I think one of the most important relatable.

Marion Mongello [01:04:21]:
I know who it is.

Tim Foster [01:04:22]:
I know who it is.

Lou Mongello [01:04:23]:
Characters.

Marion Mongello [01:04:24]:
Can I guess?

Lou Mongello [01:04:24]:
No. Come on.

Marion Mongello [01:04:25]:
Let me please give.

Lou Mongello [01:04:28]:
It's Aunt May.

Marion Mongello [01:04:29]:
I knew it. Because I looked around, I saw Spider man. I'm like, he.

Lou Mongello [01:04:33]:
Without a doubt.

Tim Foster [01:04:34]:
That's not know.

Lou Mongello [01:04:36]:
Without a doubt. She is Peter Parker. Look, we love Spider man because we love Peter Parker, right? The relatable teenager. That's why so many of us love Spider man. And specifically, Tom Holland's portrayal is massive, don't we? This is all about, oh, kid, I'm bringing you in. But Aunt May is smart, and she's tough, and she is grounding, and she's both maternal and paternal all at the same. She, her number one priority, without question and without compromise, is Peter. She never in any iteration, like again.

Lou Mongello [01:05:25]:
I'm not going to go into some of the wacky sort of what if? Marvel, but in any of the Spider Man's amazing Spiderman's Marvel cinematic universe. Spidermans. She always worries and puts Peter first, never herself. And I think in Spiderman two, this is pre MCU. I think she has a great quote. And Rosemary Harris was sort of the more comic book like version of Aunt May. Although clearly I love the Marissa Tome version, which was very different for a lot of people. But she has this wonderful monologue about how we need a hero and courageous, sacrificing people setting examples for all of us.

Lou Mongello [01:06:09]:
And everybody loves a hero. And they line up for them and they cheer for them and they scream their names. And years later, they talk about how they stood in the rain for hours just to get a glimpse of the one who told them to hold on for a second longer. And this is the important part. She says, I believe there's a hero in all of us that keeps us honest, gives us strength and makes us noble and finally gets us to die with pride. Even though sometimes we have to be steady and give up the thing we want most, even our dreams. Aunt May is a hero. That's Aunt May.

Lou Mongello [01:06:45]:
She gave up everything and did everything for Peter Parker. Right? Who know she's Aunt May. She's not Peter's mother. The raising of Peter was sort of thrust upon him when Peter's parents died. And all the films and all the comics give us slightly different versions of Aunt May, right? There's one where Peter doesn't live with Aunt May. There's another one in the MCU where he does live with Marissa Tomei. And she's much more involved in his life. And one of the reasons why I like that version is that she is an involved parental figure, which is, I think, what may should be.

Lou Mongello [01:07:31]:
And I love the fact that she is not necessarily the maternal, paternal adult in the house. But Peter can talk to May, right? She can talk with know. She know. Don't give me any of this nonsense like, I know where you were. I know what you like. Talk to me. And Peter's honest with her. He's got that trust that he can be honest with her and she doesn't freak out and yell.

Lou Mongello [01:07:56]:
Marian, I'm looking at you. If you be honest. I'll never freak out and yell. I've told you that forever. Right? But she's funny. And even when she knows his identity, her singular role is to love and protect Peter. And just as a very, very nerdy quick aside, she actually was a superhero in her own comic. Disney plus is coming out with an animated series called what if? Which is where they would sort of ask, what if this happened? Instead of this happened? Well, this was in what if number 23.

Lou Mongello [01:08:33]:
What if aunt may actually was the one who got bitten by the spider and she wasn't Spider man? She was Spider, ma'am.

Tim Foster [01:08:42]:
Spider Man.

Lou Mongello [01:08:44]:
Spider man. Right. So there's a whole story about how she was the one. Peter forgot his lunch. Right again. So May goes out and to bring his lunch, and instead of him being bitten by the spider, when she rushes to bring him the bag, he is the one. She's the one that gets bitten and has new agility and strength and creates her own costume and things like that. So, aunt May, for me, you are, without question, a top Disney heroine.

Marion Mongello [01:09:16]:
I guessed it. Just saying.

Lou Mongello [01:09:17]:
You guessed it. Because all I have in my room is Spider Man.

Marion Mongello [01:09:20]:
Spider man toys. They're toys.

Lou Mongello [01:09:22]:
They're collectibles.

Marion Mongello [01:09:22]:
You're a grown man, and you have.

Tim Foster [01:09:24]:
A room full of toys. Action figures.

Lou Mongello [01:09:26]:
They're collectibles.

Marion Mongello [01:09:27]:
Action figures doesn't make it anything better. They're toys.

Lou Mongello [01:09:30]:
They're potentially your college. No, this is true.

Marion Mongello [01:09:33]:
I'm not complaining.

Lou Mongello [01:09:36]:
So have we hit everyone in the Marvel universe?

Tim Foster [01:09:40]:
No. No. Because I want to get your opinions on.

Lou Mongello [01:09:44]:
Okay.

Tim Foster [01:09:44]:
Is that fair? Unless Marion had.

Marion Mongello [01:09:46]:
No, I don't have any.

Tim Foster [01:09:51]:
I had her on the list and stuff, but I just wanted to get your thoughts on this, and I know I'm going to throw a little controversy in here a little bit. So Captain Marvel.

Lou Mongello [01:10:06]:
Who?

Tim Foster [01:10:07]:
I love Captain Marvel, and I love the character, and I love. Well, let me just go on first about how I do love the character Captain Marvel. I love her backstory, similar to what we talked about. Well, with, like, she came from being told, you can't do this, you can't do this, you can't do this. You're knocked down, you're knocked down, you're knocked down, you're knocked down, but you keep getting up and getting. You know, we saw that with a brilliant flashback later in the. And then, of course, she became right up there with Scarlet Witch, one of the few characters that could go toe to toe with Thanos. And the only thing that stopped that from happening was he had to pull out the.

Lou Mongello [01:10:51]:
Which one was it?

Tim Foster [01:10:51]:
The power Stone, and just whack her in the head, straight up with it. That's the only way he could stop her. But I do know, and I'm not blind to the fact that Captain Marvel was one of the most polarizing characters in the Marvel cinematic universe as far.

Lou Mongello [01:11:06]:
As.

Tim Foster [01:11:08]:
On a couple levels. One was introducing a character so powerful. More powerful than pretty much any other character universe so late in the game that we barely even knew who she was before Endgame came. And a lot of people felt like that was kind of dropped in. Honestly, I've never pronounced this out loud. Is it Demachina? I forget. I don't know how you pronounce the term.

Lou Mongello [01:11:33]:
I don't even know what word you.

Tim Foster [01:11:37]:
The plot device that's introduced.

Lou Mongello [01:11:39]:
Deus Machina.

Tim Foster [01:11:41]:
Yes. Have never said that out loud. Meaning the plot device, item, object, person that's solely introduced to move the plot along. It doesn't in itself have any character. But then there was a lot of her being a woman, her being in that role, and a lot of backlash, the whole Mary sue thing. And I know she and Brie Larson personally took a lot of heat from people who, to me, in my opinion, is that still aren't ready to have what we talked about at the beginning. A female heroine that was. I don't even say right up there with a male hero, was the hero.

Tim Foster [01:12:35]:
Male, female, regardless, they were in that role. And I think there are a lot of people who couldn't handle that it was a woman, aside from the plot issues and stuff, which in that part I can see and understand, but I'm totally not on that side of things. But I was curious, and this is a deep subject, I know, but I was curious what you guys thought about that. Kind of similar to Ray, same kind of idea.

Lou Mongello [01:13:03]:
I'm very curious because I don't know what Marion's going to say.

Marion Mongello [01:13:06]:
Well, I really, really like Captain Marvel as a character. I wasn't a big fan of the movie. I mean, it just wasn't my cup of tea. But I think know she is a huge role model, and she definitely. How do I say this? I literally lost my train of thought. But, yeah, I like her as a character, and I think it was really important to have. I don't think Marvel had a female hero movie, which I think it needed. Yeah, sorry, I lost my train of thought there.

Lou Mongello [01:13:49]:
So I think there's multiple parts, and we can do an analysis of the film.

Tim Foster [01:13:55]:
And I didn't mean to make this a real deep.

Lou Mongello [01:13:57]:
No, because I think it's interesting because I saw Captain Marvel twice in theaters, and both times, as the lights came up, I went with groups of people. There was one side, and I was specifically looking to females that were like, I love this movie. It's my favorite MCU movie. Like, hands down, no question. And there was another group that said, I hated this movie. And every single part of it, I.

Marion Mongello [01:14:22]:
Feel like you're definitely like, I love it.

Lou Mongello [01:14:23]:
And I think there was a lot. And I think because when I say that there's two parts, there's Carol Danvers, Captain Marvel, the character. She's brave and she's virtuous, and she's incredibly strong and powerful, and she is a force to be reckoned with. What there's also the other side of that coin is there's not any sense of demonstrative, distinctive personality. And I don't know if it was the writing or if. I don't know if it's Brie Larson, because I don't know Brie Larson. I've only seen her in some secondary roles in other that, and I've watched that film and I've tried watching it multiple times. And while I think the film itself is an absolutely milestone film for a lot of reasons, much the same way as Black Panther was in terms of MCU and how it resonated with different audiences for different ways, the film itself didn't.

Lou Mongello [01:15:29]:
It's not super high on my list of MCU films, and I think it's not necessarily because of the character. It's the portrayal of it. I didn't get even in Endgame. Like, I wanted more emotion from her. And maybe it's by design, maybe there is a longer arc that we are sort of in the first act of. And I hope that's the case, because she's a kick butt character, and she's obviously going to be a force to be reckoned with throughout the MCU as we go into phase four. But I wish I loved Carol Danver's Brie Larson more than I do. And that's hard for me to say because I wanted to love that character and the film and her more than I currently do.

Marion Mongello [01:16:19]:
That was what I was trying to say. Those were the words. Thank you. That was it.

Lou Mongello [01:16:22]:
And she's also the film, too, just as a quick aside from the actual story, she had a very confusing, very labyrinthine backstory, which was sort of thrust upon us very quickly.

Marion Mongello [01:16:37]:
There was always something happening.

Tim Foster [01:16:38]:
Yeah.

Lou Mongello [01:16:39]:
Like, as much as her powers are really cool and the soundtrack was awesome, you're like, wait, you're trying to piece together things, but we'll see how this progresses going forward into phase four of the MCU. So, no, Tim, I'm happy you brought it up, because I did not have Captain Marvel on my list, obviously. And I think if we did not mention her, I think we would have been doing a disservice and there'd be people screaming, not that anybody has an iPod, but they'd be screaming at their iPods. Why she's not on the list.

Tim Foster [01:17:13]:
And it's going to be semi serious. I hope this is okay, because we're all about semi serious on this show. Throw a little king candy. Yeah. To lighten the mood. Know, I was reading everything that was going on and why people were thinking this. I came out of it thinking it was mean. I loved the movie.

Tim Foster [01:17:36]:
I'm kind of with you, though. If I'm going to rank the MCU movies, it might not be up there at the tippy top of them all, but I certainly didn't hate it by any stretch. I think the plot, but to me, there's two parts to this, and one is the whole plot movie. But all the stuff you talked about, and I think a lot of that suffered from. If you're one that thought it suffered, it suffered from that. It came very quickly. It came out of nowhere. It came between Infinity War and Endgame.

Tim Foster [01:18:10]:
And I kind of agree with the thought that it was kind of jammed in there, like, out of nowhere, especially if you didn't follow the comic books or anything. Here's this all powerful superhero that. Where did this come from? And we needed an answer between the two movies, how we're going to win. And I think a lot of people felt kind of duped that we went through, what was it, 21, 22 movies. We get to this, and you're going to tell me the answer was this new character we're going to plop in right now? That's why I was a part two with the Duex, however you say that. And I think because it was rushed in, and I think they filmed Endgame as far as Brie Larson was concerned while they were filming Captain Marvel or even before. So she didn't even know her origin story when she was filming Endgame. That's how rushed all of this was.

Tim Foster [01:19:02]:
So, yeah, some of what you said, the writing, the production quickly, as they put it together, had a lot to do with that. But there was a lot of backlash to Brie Larson, too, and the female component of it, that she was a female. If Captain Marvel was a male character, you still would have had plot complaints and stuff similar to what we.

Lou Mongello [01:19:27]:
Right. It has nothing to do with her being a female character at all.

Tim Foster [01:19:30]:
No, but I think there were a lot of people that did have issue with that. I think what we're talking about is who our favorite Disney heroines are. And I think we've all talked about how far that has come, that women can have these roles, and I want to say acceptable. That's not the word I'm trying to find, but you know what I mean? As opposed to 50 years ago or 60 years ago. And the thing that it just bothered me on a personal level with Captain Marvel and with Star wars, that there were still people that just can't, on face value, accept that there's a superhero movie and the lead is a woman. And even Wonder Woman, I think, got not as bad, but I think it got its share of backlash, too, for that reason. Not as much, though, because more people knew Wonder Woman, I guess, but that's all I'm up on my little Timmy Foster soapbox saying, I hear it, I don't like it. I'm not about that and know don't want it to be like that.

Lou Mongello [01:20:35]:
But I think it has nothing to do with it being a female superhero. Right. Look, you want to sit down and have a conversation about the Incredible Hulk and Thor, the dark world, I'm more than happy to let you know some of the issues that I have with those films. Not everyone is going to be the best. And Captain Marvel, unfortunately, I think, just fell flat for some people.

Tim Foster [01:20:56]:
There is a separation between, there's a definite movie part of the discussion, but you have to admit there is a part of the discussion that was strictly about it's Brie Larson, it's one character and all that. And I know that's not what you were saying, and I'm not saying that is what you were saying. I'm just saying that component was out there when the movie was out, and there was a lot of that floating around. And, you know, the whole thing about how people were going in and going on rotten tomatoes and trolling and preemptively getting it knocked out of the running and all that. There's a whole story to that. And I guess the bottom line to me is it kind of still speaks to, we've come a really long way as a society in that regard, but we still have a little way to go. But I'm for one, I love goose the cat. Maybe.

Marion Mongello [01:21:54]:
Is Goose a girl? Is Goose a boy?

Tim Foster [01:21:57]:
She would have been if she was a girl. I think he is referred to as a he.

Lou Mongello [01:22:04]:
What was Goose the cat? What was Goose the cat's name in the comic books that they changed for the film?

Marion Mongello [01:22:11]:
Isn't it a flirkin?

Lou Mongello [01:22:13]:
You know what? That's going to be this week's trivia question.

Marion Mongello [01:22:15]:
Oh, my gosh. No.

Tim Foster [01:22:16]:
But see, that's not a Disney trivia question. That's not fair.

Lou Mongello [01:22:19]:
Of course it is.

Tim Foster [01:22:20]:
No, it is. No, it isn't. What was it? Oh, you're not going to tell.

Lou Mongello [01:22:24]:
I'm going to have to tell you because, look, Google it. It's very simple and it's actually very interesting.

Marion Mongello [01:22:29]:
It's fascinating, your questions.

Lou Mongello [01:22:32]:
They can. They could Google because I want them to learn and be like, wow, that's really cool. I didn't know that, like a prize or something.

Tim Foster [01:22:38]:
You can learn by disseminating knowledge from your position as a. Whatever. Now you're maybe, you know what? Homework.

Lou Mongello [01:22:45]:
You know what? Never mind. I'll tell you at the very end of the show. Now I'm going to have to make you live. All right? We have to move on because this turned into a cat.

Tim Foster [01:22:53]:
I know. I'm getting. I'm off my soapbox.

Lou Mongello [01:22:56]:
Was that yours, Tim?

Tim Foster [01:22:58]:
I don't know.

Lou Mongello [01:22:59]:
All right, well, I'm going to go next.

Tim Foster [01:23:00]:
Talk long enough.

Lou Mongello [01:23:01]:
I'm going to go next. Because when we talk about heroines and we talk about superheroes, I think there is one in the conversation that is so important because of what she represents. Because to me, every mom is a superhero, whether you are a homemaker, you care for your children, you're a teacher, you're a rock of the family, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. A wife and a mom, that is your superpower. And Helen Parr, Mrs. Incredible, I'm looking at you, kid.

Tim Foster [01:23:44]:
Good.

Marion Mongello [01:23:44]:
Okay. Yes. Good.

Lou Mongello [01:23:46]:
Right. Listen, we know her as elastigirl. The fact that she is know Mr. Fantastic and can stretch to all sizes and shapes, that has nothing to do with what her superpower is. She is a devoted wife. She's a loving mother. She is willing over and over and over again to put her life on the line without even thought or hesitation for her children. Like in incredibles one and incredibles two, and they team up together and you see the power of family.

Lou Mongello [01:24:22]:
And I think the family coming together to beat syndrome just shows the importance of family coming together. Although in incredibles, too, she really does shine and takes down. If you haven't seen incredibles too, I won't spoil it for you. But she is a mom to be reckoned with. And her being a top ten heroine has nothing to do with her superpowers, her super suit, or her ability to fight crime. It's what she does at and for her home, her husband and her kids.

Tim Foster [01:25:06]:
Well done. Thank you.

Marion Mongello [01:25:08]:
That was good. I didn't even honestly think about Mrs. Incredible or what is it? Helen. I didn't even know her.

Lou Mongello [01:25:15]:
Helen Parr.

Marion Mongello [01:25:16]:
Helen Parr. When I looked over, I thought it said Helen Parker, as in, like, Peter Parker's mom was. I was like, am I missing something?

Lou Mongello [01:25:24]:
Another Spider man reference, really?

Marion Mongello [01:25:26]:
And I was like, didn't she die? Anyway, sorry. Yeah, I think moms can really relate. I think mom, as in my mom, definitely relates to Helen Parr. Because as you saw in incredibles, two more than the first one. There was one scene that kind of stuck out when she's, like, on her little motorbike thing, trying to get the bad guy. And dash calls and he's like, what are we having for dinner? And she's like, I'm at work. Which I found was so relatable, because I do that and mom's at work and whatever, but, yeah. Oh, no, I definitely agree.

Marion Mongello [01:26:01]:
Good job.

Lou Mongello [01:26:02]:
And your mom, don't ever tell her I said, but your mom is a superhero. Like, she works in the hospital. Like, she literally works to save lives and help other people. And then she's able to take off that superhero uniform and then run a marathon, and then come home and put on her super mom uniform, which usually is like, sweats and sweats, and it's running clothes.

Marion Mongello [01:26:25]:
She goes running, and then she makes dinner.

Lou Mongello [01:26:28]:
And then she puts on her fluffy slippers. But she is. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like superhero in multiple different facets.

Tim Foster [01:26:36]:
Now, hold on. You absolutely should tell her that.

Lou Mongello [01:26:39]:
Come on. Come.

Tim Foster [01:26:53]:
I think you skipped over Marion.

Lou Mongello [01:26:55]:
No, that was just mine. So now it's Marion's turn.

Marion Mongello [01:26:57]:
Okay, well, these are more honorable, so.

Lou Mongello [01:27:01]:
Why don't we all do our last one, and then can hit some honorable mentions.

Marion Mongello [01:27:05]:
Well, I looked over and read your list, and we share one, so I'll make it really easy. First, I'll show you the one that we don't share.

Lou Mongello [01:27:12]:
Just do your last one. Don't look.

Marion Mongello [01:27:16]:
I'll do my last one and then I'll do an honorable mention.

Lou Mongello [01:27:19]:
No, you do honorable mentions. After everybody else is done, then we'll do. Listen.

Marion Mongello [01:27:22]:
Okay, trust me.

Lou Mongello [01:27:23]:
Just do one.

Marion Mongello [01:27:24]:
Moana. Because she saves her island, she makes some difficult choices. She meets Maui and they both go on this long journey, and she learns how to sail and, yeah, I just basically gave a summary of the movie, but yes, Moana, she sacrifices everything to save her island and her people. And before a princess, she's definitely a warrior. I guess you could say a hero.

Lou Mongello [01:27:56]:
Tim, go ahead. Is she on your list?

Tim Foster [01:27:59]:
No, I told you, I haven't seen the movie.

Lou Mongello [01:28:02]:
Wait, what?

Marion Mongello [01:28:03]:
You haven't seen?

Tim Foster [01:28:05]:
No. Yeah, I saw Moana.

Lou Mongello [01:28:08]:
All right, I'll just very quickly then, chime in. So Moana is on my list. First of all, you know, I'm going through some sort of manopause type thing. When I hear how far I'll go, it literally gets me choked up. And again, as an entrepreneur, I can apply that to life and business. But she was on my list again. She's willing to sacrifice everything to save her home, to save her family, to save everyone else. She never gives up to save all of her people.

Lou Mongello [01:28:46]:
She's brave. She learns and adapts so quickly, even if, and more importantly, even if there's nobody there to support her. Right. Moana is the heroine that has no love interest. There is none. Right? That's not the relationship that she has with Maui. Almost everybody else we're talking about, there is some sort know, other figure in there that is some sort of a romantic. And I love that about her.

Lou Mongello [01:29:20]:
I love the sort of passionate dreamer that Moana is. So she's literally not a princess, right. She's a daughter of the chief, which is different. So we can't necessarily call her a princess. But there's nothing about falling in love. And I think that's one of the things that differentiates her from other classic Disney heroines and Disney princesses is she's got wonderful real world abilities. There's an action plot to the story and it has nothing to do with sort of the quote unquote stereotypical princess falling in love.

Marion Mongello [01:30:08]:
Tim, I do have to say, you do make a fair point, but Disney's doing a pretty good job. A lot of the more recent movies, they haven't had a love interest like Elsa. And honestly, a few that we've talked about, they don't have them, which I do think is very important. But yeah.

Lou Mongello [01:30:25]:
Anyway, look, very quickly, I thought about putting Anna on my list for a second and then I'm like, wait a minute, she married a dude after like 15 minutes. She's off the list right off the bat.

Tim Foster [01:30:38]:
Wow. Anything.

Marion Mongello [01:30:39]:
It's Elsa, judge, if anything. If it's one of the Arendelle.

Lou Mongello [01:30:44]:
Well, but no, wait a second. Because Anna, she puts everything on hold. Old to save her sister and the villain. She might not make the best decisions all the time, but that's only in frozen one. She comes back around, right? She definitely comes back. She learns from her mistakes, which is why I had her on there. But fair, maybe date for a while.

Marion Mongello [01:31:16]:
I'm just saying Anna is a heroine. Elsa is equally as much of a heroine. Though the second movie, she had her moment. She's a spirit.

Lou Mongello [01:31:23]:
Tim probably hasn't seen that one either. Tim, they made frozen two.

Tim Foster [01:31:27]:
Were you talking about little mermaid?

Lou Mongello [01:31:29]:
What were we talking about, Tim? Who's the last one on your current list? And then we'll hit some honorable mentions.

Tim Foster [01:31:34]:
No, I like listening to this because, Lou, you are clearly losing this argument.

Lou Mongello [01:31:39]:
Thank not. What argument am I losing?

Marion Mongello [01:31:44]:
All of them.

Tim Foster [01:31:47]:
Discussion. Debate.

Lou Mongello [01:31:50]:
Difference of opinion we're sort of having. So good. So who's the last one on your list?

Tim Foster [01:31:58]:
This might be a go with me one, but honestly, when you brought this up, this was the very first character that popped into my mind. Eve from Wally.

Lou Mongello [01:32:11]:
I love Wally so much. See the Wally toys.

Marion Mongello [01:32:17]:
The collectible. He just said toys. It's on the record. It's on the collectible.

Tim Foster [01:32:22]:
Yes. Yes, we heard that. Not an action figure.

Marion Mongello [01:32:25]:
Yes, they're.

Tim Foster [01:32:28]:
Mean. We all know the movie. We all know. I've said many, many a time that I believe Wally is the greatest love story ever. Animated live stage ever. Greatest love story ever. As I think about it, though, it is kind of interesting because Eve is a robot. So I guess you could go into this.

Tim Foster [01:32:57]:
I mean, it ended up this way. And we kind of assume all of this, much like a debate. I heard about C three, Po and R. Wally. Are they inherently programmed, male and female? That kind of ends up that way. So there's a bit of arbitrary, which is kind of interesting because we're calling Eve the heroine because she kind of was the female of the movie. But they were robots. I mean, they weren't either.

Tim Foster [01:33:32]:
That's kind of interesting. I thought of that as I was thinking about Eve. And I said there's some kind of ambiguity, ambiguity, ambiguity to that. So from that point of view, forget it. Eve is a she and Molly's a guy. But just watching the movie again, and to remind myself, I watched a little kind of highlights of, well, she goes from nothing is really cool. We talked about character arcs before and them having May's characters having a tragic past or whatever it was and then becoming who they were today. Eve was nothing.

Tim Foster [01:34:16]:
Eve was a program. He was directive in a cool apple pod mouse kind of, you know, Wally, for whatever reasons, had emotions and longed for love and so forth and all that. And seeing her arc really coming from nothing to. Through Wally learning just what love was and what emotions were. I mean, she went through from zero to nothing as far as knowing what this was all about. So there's that part of her, and then, of course, there's the component of all she did to save the crew, the axiom, Earth and Wally himself and all of that. All the heroic deeds that she did in the movie, which rightly made her a heroine by definition. But as we talked more about character arcs with these characters, I was thinking all along about Eve's character arc and how very unusual it was compared to everybody else's.

Tim Foster [01:35:24]:
Like, zero to again. And I'll just say, I just watched the movie again, and I'm still crying every time. Again. It's kind of a go with me here. But she was the first one literally kept popped in my mind when you asked me that question.

Lou Mongello [01:35:47]:
Not a go with me. Twelve years later, Wally still holds up. If you haven't watched it in a long time, you need to watch it again. What does Eve stand for?

Tim Foster [01:35:56]:
Extra vehicular environmental vascular. Extraterrestrial environmental.

Lou Mongello [01:36:02]:
Stop it. Extraterrestrial vegetation evaluator. What does stand for? You said that. No, you said something super smart and insightful. Because the character of Eve looks a lot like an Apple device. It was Jonathan Ive, the designer of the iMac and the iPod. And the iPhone helped create the design for Eve.

Tim Foster [01:36:28]:
Yeah, I said that purposely. Yes.

Lou Mongello [01:36:30]:
There you go. So, look, I love the film Apple.

Tim Foster [01:36:33]:
Chime for Wally when he brings up to power the phone.

Lou Mongello [01:36:39]:
It's like the first ten minutes of up. You can tell a beautiful story with zero words, which is why I think it's masterful storytelling, because you don't need dialogue. We had face.

Tim Foster [01:36:52]:
I just want to add my two moments that get me every time. And this isn't really about her being a hero or anything. This is about the love story part. But when she's on the ship and looking back through recordings and sees, and she never knew how when she went into hibernation after she got the plant on earth, how in all that time, Wally was right by her side, protecting her from the rain, protecting her from. And she had no. And when you see her and you can see the look in her robot eyes, which are just a few lines, but the emotion they were able to convey, like the realization she had. I can't finish my sentence, so I'm just going to move on.

Lou Mongello [01:37:38]:
Still wonderful, isn't it? And no dialogue. We didn't need dialogue.

Tim Foster [01:37:42]:
Right.

Lou Mongello [01:37:42]:
We had.

Tim Foster [01:37:42]:
That's the thing. Her emotion, everything. No words and the limited. She has eyes. That's all she has.

Lou Mongello [01:37:52]:
Right. It's Norma Desmond from Sunset Boulevard. Like that's exactly why this is so good.

Marion Mongello [01:37:59]:
I didn't like Wally, like, at all the first few times.

Lou Mongello [01:38:04]:
I know, but you were also five.

Marion Mongello [01:38:06]:
I also was very young, so I saw it last week and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Very good. I agree with every point that you said, but, yeah, I just found it interesting. I think it's definitely an age thing. This is kind of unrelated to the heroin thing, which I do agree with, but yeah, definitely an age thing, because I did not like it. There was no talking. I need the talking when I'm a five year old and I don't know what's going on because I don't have the attention span to watch.

Tim Foster [01:38:36]:
I think that was a thing at the time with that movie. Little kids are fidgeting around like, let's get going here, right?

Marion Mongello [01:38:45]:
Watching a garbage compressor with no words.

Lou Mongello [01:38:49]:
Right? And Wally is not a. I can.

Tim Foster [01:38:50]:
Clean my room at home. I don't need to watch your room.

Lou Mongello [01:38:52]:
Right. Wally is not a figure that lends himself to a soft plush that you can hug. Like, all my collectibles are toys. They're collectibles. I have a Wally shelf.

Tim Foster [01:39:03]:
You mean the dolls on your shelf? Is that what you mean?

Marion Mongello [01:39:06]:
He has a whole shelf dedicated to Wally. Toys.

Lou Mongello [01:39:09]:
They're not toys. That big one is a remote control Wally. It makes all the sounds. Whatever.

Tim Foster [01:39:13]:
It's a remote control toy. You are a toy. They made a whole movie series about.

Lou Mongello [01:39:21]:
Last. And I am so thankful that neither of you went in this direction for your last one. Marion, don't try and read my notes.

Marion Mongello [01:39:30]:
I've already read most of them.

Lou Mongello [01:39:31]:
Well, then don't read. It's very rude.

Tim Foster [01:39:33]:
Marion. What was it? Spill the.

Lou Mongello [01:39:34]:
Don't.

Marion Mongello [01:39:34]:
I don't know this.

Lou Mongello [01:39:37]:
Please. And I'm going to ask that you indulge me for a second for this one, because maybe to a certain degree, it's a Tim Foster. Go with me. The title of this show, okay, is top ten Disney heroines. And when I think about that, I think about a lot of the characteristics and story elements that a lot of these women have. And some are strong, independent women that are on their own journey. There are others, like Eve, for example, who is there for. No, it's not her personal thing.

Lou Mongello [01:40:24]:
It's to help Wali. Right? Moana is not doing it for any sort of self gain. She's doing it to help others or her entire village. We can talk a lot. Some Aunt May, right? Same thing. She's doing it to help others. I think there is no better example and representation of that than a woman who encouraged and supported and assisted behind the scenes. It was never, ever about her or the spotlight.

Lou Mongello [01:41:00]:
And I think the most important Disney heroine, or we wouldn't even be here, is Lillian Disney.

Marion Mongello [01:41:09]:
Okay, you're cheating.

Tim Foster [01:41:10]:
I have not.

Marion Mongello [01:41:12]:
She is not a Disney character.

Lou Mongello [01:41:13]:
Her name is, literally is. What do you mean?

Tim Foster [01:41:19]:
No? No, I'm saying no because stop standing ovation from me. Thank you on that one. And she was actually on my list, and I was going to bring that up and way to go, man.

Lou Mongello [01:41:35]:
Thank you. She was absolutely the woman behind we would not be here but for Lillian Disney. And it has nothing to do with telling Walt that Mortimer was a stupid name. It has nothing to do with that.

Tim Foster [01:41:48]:
Other than to do with it.

Lou Mongello [01:41:49]:
But it did. But it's demonstrative of their relationship. Right. The fact that she was able to help guide him and be tough and loving all at the same time. She did so much behind the scenes to help support not just Walt, but the company and the growth. And yes, maybe you can use the naming of Mickey as that seminal moment, but I think there's probably so many stories that we don't hear. Right. And so remember, she started the way she met Walt, was working at the studio as a secretary, and then eventually she was an animated cell anchor.

Lou Mongello [01:42:32]:
And Diane said, Diane, their daughter, said that Walt fell in love with her almost immediately and that she was an independent. This was her words, an independent little lady. And oftentimes when Walt traveled, and we reap the benefits of Walt's travel and the ideas and the inspiration he brought back, she often went with him on so many of the business trips. Look at so many of the pictures that you can find throughout the parks, the resorts, go to the Riviera, go to Disney cruise line. You'll see photos of them together, like three caballeros. Saludos, amigos. She was on that goodwill tour of South America. But while Walt was working, we know the importance of Walt's involvement as a father, right, bringing his daughters to school.

Lou Mongello [01:43:21]:
But Lillian was home raising those daughters. And when Walt came home again, the children tell stories about how she was very much that sounding board for ideas and problems and challenges. And she was able, and I used to say half jokingly, that she was able to do something that nobody else could really do, which was say no. Right. She could balance Walt's indulgent, daring risk taking with some conservative sort of grounding. Right. I think much the way that Walt did, but also allowed him to indulge. Look, I think like so many amazing wives and daughters and moms and aunts and sisters.

Lou Mongello [01:44:08]:
Look, you know, if I told your mother, Marion, look, I'm going to go out back and I'm going to dig a tunnel under your flower garden because I'm going to put a railroad back there that we're all going to ride. We might need to have a couple of conversations about that. Right? But that's what she, you know, even again, Roy and the kids would talk about how she was tough, but she was warm, and she always spoke the truth while being loving at the same time. And part of the reason why she was on this list was that she never wanted to be out front. Just the opposite. She was very publicity shy. She really didn't step out into the public arena until after Walt's death in 1966. And it really was sort of to show the support of the ongoing fulfillment of what Walt's dreams would be.

Lou Mongello [01:45:10]:
And when she went to the dedication of Walt Disney World in 71 with Roy O Disney, she said to Roy that I think Walt would have approved. And she came back eleven years later for the dedication of Epcot center. But she also continued to fill Walt's mission and vision. Right? So she supported Walt's love of the arts and education. So the opening of Cal arts in Valencia was helped by the funding that she gave to that school. In 87, she gave a gift of $50 million to the new symphony hall designed by Frank Gary in Los Angeles. So she wanted to, like Walt, give gifts to the community in the ways that she was able to do. Right.

Lou Mongello [01:46:08]:
And the Walt Disney concert Hall was sort of what she was able to do in order to continue to fulfill that. So, I mean, I could go on and on, and maybe one day I should do an entire show about Lillian Disney, because I think she is the ultimate Disney heroine.

Marion Mongello [01:46:24]:
Good job.

Tim Foster [01:46:26]:
Could not agree more. And I will say she popped into my. I didn't know if we were going to go down this path of real people in Disney history. Did they get to be on this list?

Lou Mongello [01:46:44]:
Listen, I did not give any.

Marion Mongello [01:46:47]:
Not a character. You said character.

Lou Mongello [01:46:49]:
No, I said, top ten Disney characters. Well, you said, what is that?

Tim Foster [01:46:56]:
Hold on. This is what he does. He makes the rules, right? But then he changes the rules at the last minute. Or he imposes rules upon you that he didn't tell you before. Like, if I had said this.

Lou Mongello [01:47:17]:
For a second, you are both very smart, very intelligent, very creative people.

Tim Foster [01:47:24]:
We are guests on your show, and.

Lou Mongello [01:47:25]:
You will do what I say. No, you guys both use the creative as well as the other didactic parts of your brain. You know more than anybody that it's okay. And in fact, the only way things get done is by thinking outside the box sometimes.

Tim Foster [01:47:48]:
Yeah.

Lou Mongello [01:47:48]:
Until we don't flutter your eyes, roll.

Tim Foster [01:47:50]:
Them back until I'm told we're going to do like top ten attractions that, I don't know, make us cry. And then you start out by saying we're not going to talk about, and then immediately rips ten off my list because you didn't tell me this is what you do. But I just want to add, I don't have many honorable mentions. You already said Dory. She was on my list. You can talk about her later if you want.

Lou Mongello [01:48:22]:
I would say. How was mulan? Mulan was on my honorable.

Tim Foster [01:48:24]:
Mulan was my princess of choice. But we just got so involved with everything else, I didn't get to it. But since we went down that path, I do want to mention as far as real life people in Disney history that we would call heroines. I just want to make personal mention of my personal real life Disney heroine. That means a lot to me. And she is my artistic hero. That would be Mary Blair. And she means she has been so important to me growing up, like through my learning art and appreciating art and just seeing what she did, not just her style and everything, which is phenomenal and stuff, but how she went about it.

Tim Foster [01:49:06]:
Remember back. This is back what the. When she was doing stuff like this, the path she paved for so many people and just too she wasn't. She inspires me so much. She inspired me when I was in art school. She inspires me today. So Mary Blair is my personal, real life Disney hero.

Lou Mongello [01:49:33]:
I am with you 100%. I think there's lots and we can.

Tim Foster [01:49:37]:
Do a whole show on her. Or maybe you did, I don't know.

Lou Mongello [01:49:39]:
Yeah, I mean, I think I've done shows in the past on Legends of Disney imagineering and I thought about doing that for the women's History Month, but I said, oh, let's sort of take it this way and do characters. But I think there's a ton that without a doubt.

Tim Foster [01:49:55]:
Yeah. And there's a lot more. But again, that could be part two.

Lou Mongello [01:50:00]:
Marion, any other honorable mentions on your list?

Marion Mongello [01:50:03]:
So I could go on and on because I know, I mean, I can't imagine you guys probably get a lot of backlash, I guess you'd call it if you disinclude people know because everybody has their own opinion. How could you leave know? There are countless heroines that I could say but one that was on my list was rapunzel because ultimately, in the end, she made the ultimate sacrifice and she put everything on the line for who she loved and she was locked in a tower for her whole life, which takes a lot of patience, which I don't have. Anyway, go ahead.

Tim Foster [01:50:41]:
Yeah.

Lou Mongello [01:50:42]:
The only other one I had just as an honorable mention was.

Tim Foster [01:50:48]:
I also had Merida on my list.

Lou Mongello [01:50:50]:
I think she was on a lot.

Tim Foster [01:50:51]:
Of people's lists as a great standalone.

Lou Mongello [01:50:54]:
Yeah, Brave was not my favorite movie, which is maybe why the character didn't. But Belle, again, she stood up for her own and Belle ideals. Yeah, these were characters.

Tim Foster [01:51:08]:
Yeah. And these are characters, too, like you mentioned before with there wasn't a love interest back there being the motivation for a lot of what she did, which is.

Lou Mongello [01:51:19]:
Right, she rejected the first love interest. Right. Because that's not what it was about at. Yeah, Gaston was the most quote unquote desirable man in town and she wanted nothing to do with, you know, kudos to you, Belle. You go, girl.

Tim Foster [01:51:32]:
And I will say one thing, too, because I know that pretty much every Disney princess we could probably put on this list for sure, but I always found it funny. Like I said, society wise, we've come a long way, still work to do and all that. But I remember when a little mermaid was coming out and beauty and the beast and so forth, there would be talk about it's great that they have a princess in this case, who is, what am I looking for? Strong and self reliant and everything else and stand on their feet and not, I'm just sitting here waiting for Prince Charming and stuff. And I just find it funny or interesting is a better way to say it with pretty much every movie that comes out not so much anymore because I think it's becoming more and more okay. And that's the norm is a better way to say that. But they would say that when Rapunzel would come out, when Princess and Frog would come out, when, you know, all these movies would come out and they'd say, you know, it's about time they did a princess that could stand on herself and be reliable and stand on 2ft when they had been doing that for quite a while. If less people forget that this isn't a new phenomena that just popped up in the last few years, like, Disney's been pretty progressive in that for a long time now, going way back, you had your typical dandels in distress and all that kind of stuff. But they've been at the forefront of this for quite a long time, which I think we should give them a little shout out for.

Lou Mongello [01:53:14]:
Yeah. I think it's just as a quick aside, sort of, just to state the obvious, it's interesting that none of the princesses or characters from some of the early Disney animated films made it onto the list. Not that they are not strong and heroines, but just again, you talked about sort of progression in terms of the storytelling and the roles and the motivation of the characters. Look, I think that's what all of these characters and ones that we probably left off the list, that you're screaming like Mangelos. How did you possibly do. What's wrong with you, Marion?

Marion Mongello [01:53:53]:
I don't know if you have, like. I don't listen to these a lot, but if you have, like, a speed round of just names that you say it.

Lou Mongello [01:53:58]:
This was the speed round. I think we hit them. Do it, do it.

Marion Mongello [01:54:04]:
Okay, I have like eight. Tinger Bell, Jesse from Toy Story. Pocahontas. Gwen Stacy, aka spider girl from. Okay. I don't know. This counts. Yeah.

Marion Mongello [01:54:11]:
Miss Piggy and Ariel.

Lou Mongello [01:54:13]:
Miss Piggy. Look at you. Give me high five from Miss Piggy.

Marion Mongello [01:54:17]:
She is her own star.

Lou Mongello [01:54:19]:
I dig the fact that you. So you went through those very quickly. But there was a couple that were very much. I think Miss Piggy, again, bravo for thinking out of the box with Miss Piggy. I love that. What did you say? Ariel?

Marion Mongello [01:54:33]:
Ariel. Pocahontas.

Lou Mongello [01:54:34]:
Pocahontas. Without a doubt.

Marion Mongello [01:54:37]:
Tinkerbell, Jesse and Gwen. Jesse.

Tim Foster [01:54:41]:
Yeah.

Marion Mongello [01:54:43]:
All I get at the app.

Lou Mongello [01:54:44]:
No, you're at home.

Tim Foster [01:54:46]:
You get a standing round of applause for me.

Marion Mongello [01:54:48]:
Thank you.

Tim Foster [01:54:49]:
Which sounds terrible when I do it, so I'm actually.

Lou Mongello [01:54:52]:
Yeah, no, I like those a lot.

Tim Foster [01:54:53]:
I think that deserves a king candy shout out.

Marion Mongello [01:54:57]:
No, please.

Lou Mongello [01:54:58]:
I'll save that.

Marion Mongello [01:54:59]:
Just because of how good those were. You don't have.

Tim Foster [01:55:01]:
Yes. I think it deserves a quarantine. Words of King Candy for the rest of the show.

Lou Mongello [01:55:11]:
Look, I think that all of these characters possess so many of the same characteristics. Right? They see the world from a different perspective. They remind us that sometimes we need to take risks and leaps of faith in order to live the life that you dream of and that you want to create. And believing yourself and passion and patience and perseverance are so important, even when everybody else around you is telling you that you can't do it and you're going to fail and everything else. All of these characters stood up in the face of that and demonstrated all of the qualities that make themselves not princesses, but true herons. And inspiration, I think, for girls and women and guys alike. That's the beauty of this. So I appreciate the insights that both of you brought to the conversation.

Lou Mongello [01:56:18]:
Little Timmy Foster. I know that if people like you, and really, how could they not? If you want more, Tim, and who doesn't, they can find you and all of your goodness that you do@celebrationspress.com.

Tim Foster [01:56:33]:
That they can. Lou.

Lou Mongello [01:56:37]:
I was setting you up for a short plug. Usually this is where you go into, but you can subscribe, order back issues. There's cupcakes and pins and podcasts. I don't even know what you got going on.

Tim Foster [01:56:51]:
We do have sort of big news, though.

Lou Mongello [01:56:53]:
Well, then this was the opportunity to say it.

Tim Foster [01:56:55]:
Well, there we go. So celebrations magazine, we finally realized it's 2020 or whatever year. We've always had a digital issue, but we're going fully digital and expanding it. So there's going to be lots more magic in each issue. They're going to be bigger. They're going to be better. We're going to have videos in them now. So we're doing magical moments of your favorite attractions and all that.

Tim Foster [01:57:20]:
And you can find out more details of that over@celebrations.com.

Lou Mongello [01:57:25]:
As Lou said, it's celebrationspress.com, but that's celebrations.

Tim Foster [01:57:28]:
What did I say? I don't even know my own website, celebrationspress.com. I think if you don't go to that other. Yeah, again, you'll find links to all our other good know I'm on the greatest podcast in the world right now. But we are trying our own little podcast, so you can check that. We'd love for you to give that.

Lou Mongello [01:57:53]:
And Marion, because you are my guest as well. Do you have anything you'd like to plug?

Marion Mongello [01:57:57]:
Yes, my redbubble store, which is where I sell my art in many forms, is. Mm. A r I o o n. Underscore. Underscore. I don't actually know if there's any underscores. There might not be any underscores.

Lou Mongello [01:58:09]:
Okay, let me help the two of you out.

Marion Mongello [01:58:11]:
Instagram, though. You can follow me on Instagram.

Lou Mongello [01:58:13]:
Is this an Instagram you guys really need to get better at knowing where to plug? No, I will link to all these in the show notes, but it's redbubble.com.

Marion Mongello [01:58:25]:
I think it's m m a r r I o n. No underscores.

Lou Mongello [01:58:29]:
I'll link to it.

Marion Mongello [01:58:34]:
No, not that.

Lou Mongello [01:58:36]:
This is the worst, most confusing plug. Go to the show notes at www.radio.com listening.

Tim Foster [01:58:43]:
Lou, you know what we need to plug. Just have at it.

Lou Mongello [01:58:46]:
I think I'll just take care of.

Tim Foster [01:58:47]:
The plugs from now.

Lou Mongello [01:58:48]:
Celebrationspress.com and I will link to Marion's redbubble in the show notes and Instagram and all that kind of fun stuff. Listen, I love and appreciate both of you.

Tim Foster [01:59:01]:
One more thing. No, Lou, no, I want to send you a link for this because I don't know when this is airing. It's Wednesday night right now. Ladies and gentlemen, I just burst your bubble on our celebrations for our audience. In light of everything that's going on, we've given away. And I would like to extend this to your audience, and I can give you a link to this. We have a digital version of one of our recent books, remembering Illuminations, which has been sold out, but we have the digital version of it, and what we're doing is just, we're giving that to everybody for free to download, enjoy it, have a little bit of Disney magic, help take all our minds off of this. So, Lou, I'm going to send you a link for that so you can have that and all of your audience can get it.

Tim Foster [01:59:51]:
No strange, no nothing. This is our gift to you. We just want you enjoy it and have a little bit of Disney magic.

Lou Mongello [01:59:58]:
Now he figures out how to plug. Listen, I love and appreciate you both. You are heroes to me in your own special, weirdly magical kind of.

Tim Foster [02:00:14]:
You. Do I have to call you my hero? Marion? You're my hero.

Lou Mongello [02:00:18]:
Did you ever know that? You're my hero. You're everything I wish I could be.

Marion Mongello [02:00:24]:
This is a movie.

Tim Foster [02:00:25]:
Playing it, saying it.

Lou Mongello [02:00:29]:
If I could fly higher than an eagle. No, I'm. Now, is that the right song? Yes. You're the one beneath my wings. You're also my sunshine king. Pandy.

Tim Foster [02:00:42]:
Oh, I thought you were talking to me. Oh, great.


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